New notation for slice moves?

[Lucas Garron]

"R is for right, L is for left, U is for Up, etc. And when you need to turn the middle layer, it's N. I don't know why N but it cannot be M because we used it wrongly previously".

Not very different from "D is for down because B is taken for Back", and we just had to pick something.

We're very used to U for Up, but I think "T for Top" is more natural if we don't worry about D. (Also, T is a consonant. Using consonants for outer moves would be very nice for mnemonics.)

I think we should just replace M' with M and vise versa. Imo it's worth a little confusion for year or two to get things right for the long run.

No, no, no, no, no.
Using N for M' might cause confusion.
Switching M and M' would cause completely unresolvable ambiguity.

We had enough of this problem with lowercase moves because of the old WCA notation, and I'm glad we just barely go that over with.

 

[uberCuber]

Not very different from "D is for down because B is taken for Back", and we just had to pick something.

We're very used to U for Up, but I think "T for Top" is more natural if we don't worry about D. (Also, T is a consonant. Using consonants for outer moves would be very nice for mnemonics.)

Sure, but Up and Down still mean something. What does N stand for?

 

[amostay2004]

Sure, but Up and Down still mean something. What does N stand for?

This.

 

[Kirjava]

So it's thought that M should go in the other direction by some people. Oh well, it doesn't.

Use N if you like, but it likely won't catch on - the only slice moves most of you guys use are just M2 anyway. N will just require extra clarification in each instance of use.

 

[Dene]

I AGREE

 

[Ranzha]

So it's thought that M should go in the other direction by some people. Oh well, it doesn't.

This. 3x3 slice notation has remained consistent until now. Why can't it stay consistent for the future?

Saying that M follows L doesn't "feel right" is the worst argument I've seen. For a select few in the community to undergo a complete and unnecessary upheaval of a well-established standard will ultimately change nothing in the long run. Not to mention simply switching the direction of M/M' would only result in confusion.

tl;dr Stay consistent with the past and deal with it.

 

[Jaysammey777]

For everyone who doesn't want to change go read "the lottery" and tell me that they shouldn't change too.

For the people that want a change. Why? M' was natural to me. When I first saw it I did the correct move. I want legit and serious reasons.

 

[XTowncuber]

Making the change is pretty much not an option at this point IMO, but if all you want is a good reason to change, I can give you that.

In order to make notation easier to understand/remember, it would be nice if x and M went in the same direction. If we have to choose whether they should both follow R or both follow L, it seems to make more sense to choose R because most cubers are right handed and prefer R turns to L turns.

But yeah, changing it is completely impractical.

 

[TheNextFeliks]

For everyone who doesn't want to change go read "the lottery" and tell me that they shouldn't change too.

For the people that want a change. Why? M' was natural to me. When I first saw it I did the correct move. I want legit and serious reasons.

I loved that story. But we're not killing people here. By this logic L' should be L. It's foolish and there's no just reasons.

 

[CheesecakeCuber]

If we were to change it, what would happen to all the older but still helpful videos on Youtube that use M/M' in algs? They would then be rendered useless unless of course, someone adds disclaimers to every single video saying that it should actually be *whatever notation*

 

[CriticalCubing]

I think I would go with move changes, it is easier to remember. When I first came into cubing, I always thought M'=M until recently I cam to know about it while I was reconstructing. x and M go hand in hand, not x and M'. Please dont quote me on this now

If we were to change it, what would happen to all the older but still helpful videos on Youtube that use M/M' in algs? They would then be rendered useless unless of course, someone adds disclaimers to every single video saying that it should actually be *whatever notation*

I will remake all the videos. Give me links and ask creator of that video to give me permission

For everyone who doesn't want to change go read "the lottery" and tell me that they shouldn't change too.

For the people that want a change. Why? M' was natural to me. When I first saw it I did the correct move. I want legit and serious reasons.

Your answer in next quote Have a nice day

In order to make notation easier to understand/remember, it would be nice if x and M went in the same direction. If we have to choose whether they should both follow R or both follow L, it seems to make more sense to choose R because most cubers are right handed and prefer R turns to L turns.

 

[Kirjava]

I will remake all the videos. Give me links and ask creator of that video to give me permission

So aside from remaking hundreds of videos are you also going to rewrite every website? Are you going to republish books?

 

[CriticalCubing]

So aside from remaking hundreds of videos are you also going to rewrite every website? Are you going to republish books?

Cmon now, that was meant as a joke, thats why I even put in the end of it.

 

[Kirjava]

It was rather unclear that it was joking, as it was presented along with your argument seemingly as a retort

 

[Ultimate Cuber]

This. 3x3 slice notation has remained consistent until now. Why can't it stay consistent for the future?

Saying that M follows L doesn't "feel right" is the worst argument I've seen. For a select few in the community to undergo a complete and unnecessary upheaval of a well-established standard will ultimately change nothing in the long run. Not to mention simply switching the direction of M/M' would only result in confusion.

tl;dr Stay consistent with the past and deal with it.

The main probelm is that it doesn't align with x/y/z cube rotations. In fact not only do they not go in the same direction but they also don't all go in the opposite direction either. They should go in the same direction as x/y/z or at least the exact opposite. However it doesn't. M and E rotate clockwise according to L and D but S rotates cw according to F. This makes absolutely no sense and should be changed. I'm not saying that it will change because that is a bit far fetched but it should change and I'm willing to try and change it if enough people agree with me.

This. People are confused when they first learn it, and I can see why, but like a lot of people have said, you get used to it. Trying to change the notation now would only cause more confusion (I imagine we would have to specify whether we were using "new" or "old" slice notation, etc.).

You could easilly tell by the age of the video, website, etc.

Also most webistes that I know of specify what notation they use. If a website doesn't do this then it should. Even if it's just a video it's not hard to write one or two sentenses specifying what notation you use (in my opinion this should be done anyway).

 

[Jaycee]

A few hours late on this part of the discussion: I read "the lottery" in freshman year and it made me cringe. But, like someone said already, we're not killing people here.

I don't think changing notation is worth the change. I never had a problem with it, I just learned it the way it was and accepted it as fact. I can see how some people might have trouble when learning, but answer me this: is there anybody who's been cubing for more than a year that gets confused at which direction to move the M slice when they see M' ? The fact that it doesn't agree with x rotations doesn't matter. We all know what it means. We should just accept that it *is*.

 

[Kirjava]

The main probelm is that it doesn't align with x/y/z cube rotations.

this has literally never caused me a problem

 

[Jaysammey777]

A few hours late on this part of the discussion: I read "the lottery" in freshman year and it made me cringe. But, like someone said already, we're not killing people here.

I don't think changing notation is worth the change. I never had a problem with it, I just learned it the way it was and accepted it as fact.

And here is a example of "old man warner"

For the record I have no opinion wether this changes or not, but blindly following tradition isn't a good reason to keep it. The websites and videos and books is a better reason. And if you want to change it to make it "easier" well as said it might not be easier for everyone.

Have someone that know nothing about Rubik's cubes and teach them notation (I do this all the time while teaching people) now do it to someone else, but have them name all the moves and deciding which ways prime and nonprime(hinting that one is clockwise and the other is counterclockwise). The two people that I have tried this tactic with has said m(or whatever they called tht slice) to be M as it is in the notation now.

 

[Jaycee]

I see your point. In fact, my initial response to your post was "Okay, I'll just go hide in a corner ". But then I noticed you left out the rest of my post, which is a lot less "old man warner"-y.

I can see how some people might have trouble when learning, but answer me this: is there anybody who's been cubing for more than a year that gets confused at which direction to move the M slice when they see M' ? The fact that it doesn't agree with x rotations doesn't matter. We all know what it means. We should just accept that it *is*.

I guess the heart of the matter is really an opinion: whether or not you think making it "sensible" to beginners is worth the potential year or more of confusion among speedcubers ("Well, which M do you mean, old or new?"). I, obviously, do not.

 

[cc9tough]

The main probelm is that it doesn't align with x/y/z cube rotations. In fact not only do they not go in the same direction but they also don't all go in the opposite direction either. They should go in the same direction as x/y/z or at least the exact opposite. However it doesn't. M and E rotate clockwise according to L and D but S rotates cw according to F.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just change the notation of the S slice, since it's used much less and would require less adjustment of videos and websites. If new people ask you can tell them that rotations are based on F/R/U and slice moves are based on B/D/L.