# My commutator BLD corner method

#### dbeyer

##### Member
Somebody,
Please check my solution to Pedro's latest scramble
L2 U2 B R F U L' F B2 D2 R' F' U' L U2 F L U' L2 B D' F2 R' B2 U2

I didn't check myself, and probably won't ... I just looked at the stickers that he wanted cycled, and I visualized it. I know that I had a cycle wrong, correct stickers, wrong direction (but I quickly edited that after posting)

You know how it always looks good to you, but ... somebody else looks at it, and finds 100 mistakes (I hope there aren't that many, I mean there aren't even that many moves lol) (I hate English Term Papers!!)

Later,
Daniel Beyer

#### mrCage

##### Member
Hi

How can you say that (R F' R' F)*3 U2 (R F' R' F)*3 U2
{ ((R F' R' F)*3 U2 )*2 }

is fast or has a low move count?? Replace (R F' R' F)*3 with R2 D' R2 D R2 and i may partially agree ;-)

-Per K

#### Stefan

##### Member
2 setup move cases:
--------------------
UBL->RBU->BRD

1) R' F R2 B L B' R2 B L' B' F' R
D2 [ U L2 U', B' ] D2

#### Johannes91

##### Member
U2 F' U B2 U' F U B2 U

a.k.a. COLL

#### Stefan

##### Member
Don't know how that happened. I wish the applet I always use for checking supported commutator notation.

Corrected: D2 [ B', U F2 U' ] D2

#### UberStuber

##### Member
Why limit yourself by keeping the buffer at ULB, i.e., having to break into new cycles? You might end up with the wrong orientation, but I'd rather use an orienting alg than have to do two commuters, and I think it would ease some of the memorization troubles.

Thanks for sharing this.

#### cmhardw

Don't know how that happened. I wish the applet I always use for checking supported commutator notation.

Corrected: D2 [ B', U F2 U' ] D2
Hey Stefan,

Wow I like that alg! I hadn't thought to solve this case that way. I can see now how with a "change of viewpoint" that cycle pops out. I simply had not seen that alg to solve that case.

I think that was my only case that "required" 2 setup turns. So really I think every case is possible with either 1 setup turn or no setup turns at all. I don't know what the ratio of cases requiring no setup turns to cases requiring 1 setup turn is, but it's nice to know that no cases require 2 turns.

Cool, thanks Stefan! That alg rocks! Also I am very strongly considering switching to M2 for edges, but would you recommend it for the wings of a 5x5x5 cube for BLD? I don't see why it wouldn't work for the 5x5x5, but then again I have very limited experience with M2 right now.

Chris

#### cmhardw

Why limit yourself by keeping the buffer at ULB, i.e., having to break into new cycles?
Hi Uber,

I'm afraid I don't fully understand. In my actual solving I do use something called "pseudo-buffer" meaning that if my buffer piece is solved at the start of the scramble, rather than kick it out to start a new cycle, I use a different piece as my buffer. Also I'm a bit confused by this sentence:

I'd rather use an orienting alg than have to do two commuters
the point of my method is to solve position and orientation at the same time using intuitive commutators rather than mystical algs. Also I am trying to do 2 steps at once rather than having to split up fixing the corners into 2 steps, orienting and then permuting. Do you mean that you would rather use orientation algs to solve the last 2 or 3 corners after orienting and permuting corners throughout the solve? Or do you mean you would rather orient all pieces first, and then following that permute all pieces?

Chris

#### joey

##### Member
Why limit yourself by keeping the buffer at ULB, i.e., having to break into new cycles?
Hi Uber,

I'm afraid I don't fully understand. In my actual solving I do use something called "pseudo-buffer" meaning that if my buffer piece is solved at the start of the scramble, rather than kick it out to start a new cycle, I use a different piece as my buffer.
Coming from pochmann methods, I am used to a fixed buffer. I hope that I can start using all pieces as buffers, as it does reduce move count. I have sometimes used a different buffer, but that was on 2x2 BLD XD

Also I'm a bit confused by this sentence:

I'd rather use an orienting alg than have to do two commuters
the point of my method is to solve position and orientation at the same time using intuitive commutators rather than mystical algs. Also I am trying to do 2 steps at once rather than having to split up fixing the corners into 2 steps, orienting and then permuting. Do you mean that you would rather use orientation algs to solve the last 2 or 3 corners after orienting and permuting corners throughout the solve? Or do you mean you would rather orient all pieces first, and then following that permute all pieces?

Chris[/QUOTE]
I believe he means that when you use a fixed buffer, you have to do two extra algs when you start a new cycle.

#### Pedro

##### Member
I think what he means if that you can get 2 corners correctly placed but unoriented at the end...and he would rather use an alg to orient them than 2 commutators

#### Stefan

##### Member
Wow I like that alg! I hadn't thought to solve this case that way.
Johannes' alg is also a conjugated commutator, btw, and shorter in QTM than mine:

U' [ U' F' U, B2 ] U

I think that was my only case that "required" 2 setup turns.
I haven't checked all your algs, so I'm sorry if I missed this. How do you cycle UBL to BUR to LFU?

Also I am very strongly considering switching to M2 for edges, but would you recommend it for the wings of a 5x5x5 cube for BLD?
Yes, I've already been using r2 for the 4x4 and 5x5 wings, and m2 for the 5x5 middle edges. Needless to say I like it a lot.

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#### Pedro

##### Member
I haven't checked all your algs, so I'm sorry if I missed this. How do you cycle UBL to BUR to LFU?
UBL -> BUR -> LFU

I tought about doing L as setup, so I have now FUL -> BUR -> LFD...but I won't be able to shoot LFD to one of the other 2 spots...

that's the kind of cycles that gives me more trouble...when I have, say, 2 on the U face and one on L/F/R/B, is kinda easy to do, as you can put a U sticker on both L and F (for example), but you can't put a sticker that is on B face in the L or R face with one move...

so, the only way I found was something like L for setup and Caltech moves...

#### UberStuber

##### Member
Why limit yourself by keeping the buffer at ULB, i.e., having to break into new cycles?
I'm afraid I don't fully understand. In my actual solving I do use something called "pseudo-buffer" meaning that if my buffer piece is solved at the start of the scramble, rather than kick it out to start a new cycle, I use a different piece as my buffer.

Ah, I was under the impression that you used ULB as your ONLY buffer, and then when you finished a cycle, you break into a new cycle and keep that same buffer, as opposed to just switching to a new buffer.

Also I'm a bit confused by this sentence:
I'd rather use an orienting alg than have to do two commuters
I meant I'd rather use an orienting algorithm for the last 2 permuted but unoriented corners.

#### cmhardw

I meant I'd rather use an orienting algorithm for the last 2 permuted but unoriented corners.

Oh ok I get you now. Actually I also prefer to use orienting algs in that case. I am still trying to figure out the best option for if I get a case where I am left with a 2 cycle of corners, and 1 other correctly permuted but disoriented corner. As an example: UBL->LUB and the UFR corner needs to rotate counter clockwise to be solved. Sometimes I find that it is easier to memorize the cycle as UBL->ULF->UFR->FRU and sometimes I just memorize UBL<->ULF and that before I can execute that 2 swap I have to orient the UFL and UFR corners.

I don't know which is easier to memorize, but to me the solving is about equally as fast no matter which method I use.

Again I don't know how to memorize the cube in 14 seconds, but I have found that this kind of thing slows down my memorization on the corners *considerably*, which is why I hate that kind of case. But ironicly I can solve it very quickly, it's only the memo that bothers me about this case.

If anyone has any ideas on how they memorize this case quickly I would definitely be interested, I don't know of a consistently fast way to memorize cases like this. Also the similar case but for edges slows me down quite a bit during the memorization phase as well.

Chris

#### Lucas Garron

##### Member
Bringin' this thread back to mention a nice comm I use for 3x3x3:

[RU'R'U2RUR' , [D]]

RU'R'U2RUR' is its own inverse, so makes: RU'R'U2RUR' [D] RU'R'U2RUR' [D']
It reduce thinkings and time for annoying cases with oriented corners on different layer, and sometimes with comm solving/freestyle).

R2UR2U'R2 also works for RU'R'U2RUR' (qqwref's idea).
Stuff like RU'R'F'U2F is horrible and not self-inverting...

Also try RU'R'(Arne/H-perm)U2RUR'

EDIT: (By the way, I never liked the "Caltech move" )

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#### LarsN

##### Member
RU'R'U2RUR' is its own inverse, so makes: RU'R'U2RUR' [D] RU'R'U2RUR' [D']
It reduce thinkings and time for annoying cases with oriented corners on different layer, and sometimes with comm solving/freestyle).
For those cases I use (R2 D R2 D' R2 U2)x2. Also inversed and rotated around the cube. I find that it reduces thinking and that it's fairly fast.

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