Moving from LBL to Fridrich... YIKES!!!!111

[AvGalen]

So, in reality, you only need to learn 30 algorithms to be able to get sub-30: 9 OLLs for 2-look OLL and 21 PLLs for full PLL. If you want to get faster than 20-25 seconds, of course, you should learn more OLLs.

Definitely not true, I was sub-30 with beginner's method last layer, but with basic F2L, and this is also true for many others.

That's 10 OLL's for 2 look OLL

But even with beginners LBL you can get a sub 30 average
And with an intermediate system (keyhole, 4 look last layer) you only need 3+7+2+4 = 16 last layer algs. I have used that to average 21 officially and I am an old man that can't turn the cube very fast.

Rule of thumb for Fridrich averages:
For sub-30, practice 4 look last layer and intuitive F2L
For sub-20, improve your F2L and learn PLL
For sub-15, learn OLL
For sub-11, learn as many tricks as you can, practice-practice-practice and don't make mistakes

 

[Chuberchuckee]

Well, yes, it's possible to get sub-20 with a beginner's method.

 

[blgentry]

You've already gotten some good advice here, but I'll add a little more.

You asked how any of us had moved from LBL to Fridrich and not gotten overwhelmed. That's a great question and is something I struggled with when I was trying to switch to a Fridrich last layer.

I went straight from not having solved the cube in 20+ years to doing a Fridrich F2L (first two layers). I worked on *only* that, not solving the entire cube (only the first 2 layers) for about 5 days. Then I learned the last layer from Jasmine's Tutorial.

That's a fairly good method. You get to keep all of the algs except for one when you switch to Fridrich last layer.

After I got good at that and wanted a faster last layer, I didn't know how to switch. I mean, I had to learn all 21 PLL algs at the same time? That's crazy. So I talked to a friend who explained that all I needed were 4 PLLs to switch over:

2 PLLs to do a cycle of three corners, commonly called "A perms"
2 PLLs to do a cycle of three EDGES, commonly called "U perms"

Once I learned those, I was able to do the last layer by first doing a multi-step OLL, and then a multi-step PLL. If you don't know, OLL means to "Orient the Last Layer", which means to make the cubies all have the same color on top. PLL means "Permute Last Layer", which means to move the cubies around to their correct spots without changing their orientation.

To get faster from there, you need to add OLLs and PLLs. Getting to what is called a 4 Look Last Layer is a good goal at this stage. Basically, it means that you know enough OLLs that you can do OLL in two steps, looking at the cube only twice, and applying the appropriate alg each time. Same thing with PLL: It means you know enough PLLs to do it in 2 steps, looking at the cube twice more, and applying the appropriate algs for PLL. So a total of 4 "looks" or steps to complete the entire last layer: 4 Look Last Layer.

Here are some specifics:

http://cubefreak.net/speed/fourlook.html

From there it's easy to add PLLs until you know them all. You can add OLLs later, or at the same time if you want to, but knowing all 57 OLLs only cuts 2 to 3 seconds off of your solve time.

But I'm getting WAY ahead of myself. My humble advice for you:

1. Learn notation. It's essential, and frankly it's pretty easy. You'll have it down in no time. It just takes a little practice to remember what direction to turn each face.
2. Learn to do the cross and F2L intuitively and a beginner's last layer. The last layer you are using now is frankly odd, and won't help you get much faster. or...
2A. Learn a full beginners method that starts with the cross. Jasmine's method linked above is good. It's arguable that the beginner's method that Badmephisto teaches is better:

BadMephisto's beginner's method

As a bonus, he teaches you notation as well.

Later on you'll want to learn the 4LLL and F2L (if you haven't already in step 2).

I hope this helps some. Good luck!

Brian.

 

[Novriil]

I don't bother to read all this thread so I'm going to post this... don't be mad because maybe someone said it.

I used cubestation.co.uk there are all teh algs. My record is now 27 sec. Made on sunday and half of F2L+ 2-look oLL and 2-look PLL are makeing progress. Right now I just lubed my cube so it moves like crap. I'll just keep solving those 40sec times what I have with this crappy cube. It took me like.. umm.. 2 months? maybe three but I've improved my averages for almost a minute

 

[Gparker]

ok. this is refering to the first page of this thread.

I can't believe everyone thinks badmephistos videos are the BEST! Yes, ill agree they are quite awsome but whenever someone asks for F2L help, the first thing someone says is something with "badmephisto". I mean really, there are plenty on youtube. I didn't learn F2L from him and im doing fine, I'm just saying this to point out other people who have outstanding videos. I mean look at plurple73, his videos are just as good as bapmephistos.

Ill give plurple73's links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHBUkVpIsFw&feature=channel_page

he has more, just look

and dont forget Erik Akkersdijk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbKvOXE__CM

thes are just a few other good tutorials except for badmephisto. like i said, there is nothing wrong with them, but no one gives credit to these awsom ones

 

[blgentry]

^ I've got to say I heartily disagree. While Eric is a champion and cubes better in his sleep than I do on my best day... he leaves something to be desired as a teacher in that video. He goes WAY too fast and is very hard to follow.

The other guy also goes too fast, doesn't lay things out very well, and is generally just hard to understand as he stumbles over his words while trying to come up with an explanation. He clearly knows F2L, but he doesn't know how to explain it, which he keeps saying over and over.

It's rare to find someone that's both good at a skill *and* can teach it or explain it. I've found this over and over again in my life, be it with martial arts, computers, programming, or anything complicated.

Badmephisto isn't the end all be all of cubers or teachers, but his F2L videos are clearly superior to these two. You can tell he prepared and took the time to lay out all of F2L in a structured way. All just MHO of course.

Brian.

 

[nitrocan]

My ultimate goal is to go sub 30 seconds and I don't care how long it takes to get there!

It doesn't take that long to get sub30. I think you should tackle sub20 or 15.

 

[Gparker]

^ I've got to say I heartily disagree. While Eric is a champion and cubes better in his sleep than I do on my best day... he leaves something to be desired as a teacher in that video. He goes WAY too fast and is very hard to follow.

The other guy also goes too fast, doesn't lay things out very well, and is generally just hard to understand as he stumbles over his words while trying to come up with an explanation. He clearly knows F2L, but he doesn't know how to explain it, which he keeps saying over and over.

It's rare to find someone that's both good at a skill *and* can teach it or explain it. I've found this over and over again in my life, be it with martial arts, computers, programming, or anything complicated.

Badmephisto isn't the end all be all of cubers or teachers, but his F2L videos are clearly superior to these two. You can tell he prepared and took the time to lay out all of F2L in a structured way. All just MHO of course.

Brian.

Yes that is very true. His videos in my opinion (and just about everyone elses) is his videos are the best. But he doesnt have the only ones. Erik may go fast but some people ave followed. I myself learned from plurple73. And it wasnt that hard to follow

 

[dougbenham]

About 6 weeks after starting to learn how to solve the cube I was able to remember the last 'hard' algorithm by heart (the Dedmore Fish) and for the first time in my life I was able to actually solve a rubik's cube on my own.

The Dedmore H and Dedmore Fish algorithms featured on that website (http://www.chessandpoker.com/rubiks-cube-solution.html) are both extremely easy algorithms to understand and can be created on the fly. They are a perfect example of using commutators to solve special cases (http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Commutators_and_Conjugates). The Dedmore H algorithm has the commutator format of [R' E R2 E2 R', U2], which expands to R' E R2 E2 R' U2 R E2 R2 E' R U2. And the Dedmore Fish is not as optimized as it could be for a commutator. The author included two useless moves at the beginning and end of the algorithm (for a total of 4 useless moves). When optimized the algorithm can be in the commutator format of [R' E R2 E2 R', U'], which expands to R' E R2 E2 R' U' R E2 R2 E' R U.

If you'd like to understand commutators more in-depth and thoroughly understand these algorithms there is a great webpage on them here: http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/commutators.html.

 

[badmephisto]

I love how everyone recommends badmephisto for Fridrich tutorials.

I love it too , its very flattering.

My website was down for a couple of days but it should be back up now. I will be moving it to a new (more stable) location soon I think.

Cuber1974-- I'm glad you found my videos helpful. I would also urge you to check out my "How to become a speedcuber" video, because it outlines the entire path that you must take to get very good averages. I will actually be remaking the video once the exams are done to a much higher standard, because many people have the exact same question as you do: how do I proceed next? The path exists, and it needs to be laid out, in a very good and concise video. Hopefully this is where I come in

Happy cubing! Remember -- videos and tips can only get you so far. What really matters is the practice. The more you get of that, the better you will become-- its a very simple relationship. good luck

 

[holypasta]

I would also urge you to check out my "How to become a speedcuber" video, because it outlines the entire path that you must take to get very good averages.

i can only think of one subject on which i disagree with badmephisto. in his "How to Become a Speedcuber" video, he recommends that you learn 4LLL before fridrich F2L. i did it the other way around. because people are usually still beginners when they want to start learning fridrich, i recommend that they start with F2L because it is less intimidating (16 less algorithms.)

 

[badmephisto]

I would also urge you to check out my "How to become a speedcuber" video, because it outlines the entire path that you must take to get very good averages.

i can only think of one subject on which i disagree with badmephisto. in his "How to Become a Speedcuber" video, he recommends that you learn 4LLL before fridrich F2L. i did it the other way around. because people are usually still beginners when they want to start learning fridrich, i recommend that they start with F2L because it is less intimidating (16 less algorithms.)

I may slightly agree with you on that, and I will address this issue more specifically in my remake-- I think things should be done a little more concurrently, not absolutely. I'm thinking that people should even skip keyhole altogether and just go straight to F2L? So do beginners until ~1:30ish, then learn F2L, and then while you perfect the F2L, start getting into 2look OLL/PLL. And 2look OLL probably has a little higher priority. I'm not certain. What do you guys think?

 

[StachuK1992]

Yes, meph, I agree.
Beg -> Intuitive F2l -> 2L OLL -> 2L PLL -> some F2L algs. -> PLL -> OLL/random tricks
all of course with fingertricks thrown in there..

By the way, meph, how much longer until another video? I haven't seen ANYTHING new in quite some time.

 

[abr71310]

To be honest, I started Fridrich back in January, when it was my second month cubing. I averaged only about 45 at the time, because I realized that my LBL averages were ~40 (so yes, I noticed me getting worse) -- people told me this was normal and that if I stuck with it, I'd get faster in no time.

They were right.

After I began learning full PLL (I was pretty determined, despite schoolwork and such, I tackled it in about a month), my solve times got faster and faster, and now, I just got a 24.30 average using almost full Fridrich (no weird F2L cases though, I should really get around to that...).

My advice is to take it slow and allot yourself time either each day or each week devoted to JUST CUBING. Practice is important overall because giving your full attention to something allows you to THINK about that something even when you're not doing it. What I found cool was that when I was learning PLL, whenever I went to sleep after learning an algorithm, I sort of either dreamt about the patterns that PLL created or how the pieces shifted into place as I was performing the algorithm -- in essence, sleep-learning theory.

Use a metronome for your F2L, since the patterns can sometimes be daunting for people starting out -- I would recommend around 40 -- 60 bpm since you're not quite where I am yet (heh, I'm slow, I can only do 80 -- 100, sometimes 120 bpm on a good day).

 

[Cuber1974]

I thought I'd just report in to say a very hearty THANK YOU again to everyone who responded here with such helpful advice!!!

I'm currently still getting to 'grips' (pun intended) with using fingers instead of wrist turns on the Grade A cube I've acquired (which is a real pleasure to use I might add!) and looking over the videos linked in this thread to get me started on F2L.

It's rather strange to go against intuition when learning a new method for solving the 3x3x3 because as you all know, once you learn to solve it one way, it starts to become more intuitive not only at the thought level, but at the muscle level as well so it's hard to move from one method to another as you basically have to retrain yourself from the inside out.

I guess I've found it doubly hard because whilst I've learned to solve using the white cross from the outset, I've always learned with the cross on top of the cube rather than at the bottom, so it's somewhat confusing to learn how to solve with the cross at the bottom because as soon as you tilt it over, you really don't know how to solve the cube at all which is very disconcerting.

I find you have to more or less force your thinking to re-learn rather than keep old habits and at the moment, that's what I am focused on most. Well that and 'relearning' how to turn the faces on the cube for fastest possible rotation.

Like I mentioned before, I'm basically taking my current glass of knowledge on the cube and tipping it out in order to relearn it the 'right' way from the ground up. Whilst the beginning of this new method is extremely slow going - I know that long term learning the 'correct' method from the outset will ensure that I don't have to revisit the relearning process at a later stage.


Rest assured though I'm a persistent bugger and very keen to learn. Even with the LBL I'm still solving sub 2 mins and on the train home from work I still get people watching my wrists move quickly and it's interesting to note the impressed look on their faces when the solve happens because as you all know, even with LBL, the cube can look a complete mess on the final algorithm until virtually by magic it just 'solves'. I still find that last motion fascinating, almost like a magic trick and it makes me want to do it again and again and again...

Anyway, I'll be sure to keep everyone posted on my progress from here and see how I go over the next few months. I guess what I'd like to do first is record a few of my 'best' LBL times so I can look back later on and guage my progress.

So I guess the final question I have for the guru's here is what application do you all use on your PC for recording times and 'messing up' the 3x3x3? In many of the speed solving clips I've seen online I can see they're using a program which randomly generates a cube state for solve, then they hit space (or mouse) to start and again to finish, with the timer on screen in large digital numbers - what program is that???

Many thanks to everyone again, I have bookmarked this thread myself as a number of people I work with are really keen on learning the cube too and this thread has been a gold mine for the new cuber wanting to advance beyond the LBL. I'll definitely keep you all posted!

Cheers and thanks again!!!

 

[byu]

that's CCT available at garron.us

cubetimer.com is also good.
So is cubemania.org

In fact all the timers here are good.

 

[Zaxef]

Now to someone with less than 6 months experience under the belt, the Fridrich is quite frightening.

I started Fridich about a month into cubing.. It's intimidating at first but you won't get very far with the LBL method so I figured I had no choice

 

[Cuber1974]

that's CCT available at garron.us

cubetimer.com is also good.
So is cubemania.org

In fact all the timers here are good.

Cheers, I had to do a little searching but found the actual page on Garron :

http://cube.garron.us/cct/

Downloading now...

EDIT : Hmmm, it's just a .jar file.

Don't suppose there's an .exe version out there somewhere for the Java challanged among us?

Edit Edit : Idiot me forgot to get and install Java 1.6... Installating now : http://www.filehippo.com/download_java_runtime/

lol!

Wow... isn't this great!!!

 

[byu]

CCT is really good, but it doesn't run on my computer because it's a PPC.

 

[teller]

Don't suppose there's an .exe version out there somewhere for the Java challanged among us?

I would just go to http://www.cubetimer.com/. It has all the basics, no installation required, works good, keeps track, etc.