Martín Telésforo "4.41 single" DNF - Perry Open, Mexico

[hcfong]

I'm not talking about cheating. I'm talking about not correctly following procedures, as stated in Tim's post on the WCA forum, which could make cheating easier. This has only come to light because of the attention generated by the cheating of Martin. This may mean that this has been going on for much longer, but has never been noticed.

 

[Sebastien]

Really?! The actions of a single person are enough to convince you that a whole region of the world should now be suspect? How is it safe to assume ANYTHING about Latin Americans given the actions of a single person? As mentioned before, the way Martin cheated is likely exactly the same way someone in America had a few years ago. Are my solves now suspect? I mean, I live in the same country as a cheater and Americans are fat and lazy to it's safe to assume that cheating is rampant here.

To clarify this once and for all: The decision of not accepting the results from Perry Open has absolutely nothing to do with the "4.41" cheating incident. Although, the incident is for sure the reason why these irregularities were revealed.

 

[AvGalen]

I think it is very likely that he simply mixed his cube into a "scrambled" position he was familiar with, and then put it down on the score card. Then, someone must have assumed it was scrambled and brought it over to him. (As the first WCA post points out, this isn't the first time that has been done.) The official scramble isn't one which can be easily solved in 4.41 seconds by a 17-average solver, but it's not too hard to think of a position he could solve in that time, especially if we assume he already knows the solution. The stuff about xxxcross, OLL skip, J perm, and so on was just an attempt by Martín to make the time seem more plausible.

I am very happy to hear that it isn't just Martin that got called out for cheating. I was still wondering about a quote that is also in the first/summary post where Martin claims that "My judge and the delegate asked me immediately after the solve what was the state of the cube (the yellow cross pattern that I decided to solve and the f2l) (I guess this was to check if the scramble was the right one) and it was confirmed that the solve was executed correctly and the scramble was correct."

Because of that statement I couldn't stop wondering who else was involved except for him. It has always been obvious that the way he claimed he solved the cube in 4.41 seconds wasn't what really happened and that is what got him caught in the end

To clarify this once and for all: The decision of not accepting the results from Perry Open has absolutely nothing to do with the "4.41" cheating incident.

Has any other competition ever been declared "not WCA valid" with all results removed?
I completely agree with the conclusion from hcfong: "This has only come to light because of the attention generated by the cheating of Martin. This may mean that this has been going on for much longer, but has never been noticed."

 

[Pro94]

It's not the first time that this happens (see for example Magic Open 2011).

And also i think article 8f is clear:

8f) If WCA Regulations are not correctly observed during a competition, the WCA Board may disqualify affected attempts

 

[AvGalen]

It's not the first time that this happens (see for example Magic Open 2011).

And also i think article 8f is clear:

Article 8f is perfectly clear, no argument about this at all.
But Sebastien said that the 4.41 and the entire competition being determined "not WCA valid" had nothing to do with each and I find that very hard to believe.

Also, comparing that 2011 incident and this will not hold. That incident was noticed and filed by the delegate himself in the normal reporting procedure. And only the magic events were declared invalid: http://worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?i=MagicOpen2011

 

[TMOY]

Also, comparing that 2011 incident and this will not hold. That incident was noticed and filed by the delegate himself in the normal reporting procedure.

Well, not exactly. First the Magic and Master Magic times were validated normally, the incident got reported only a couple of days later by one of the organizers on the French forum because the delegate hadn't noticed it during the comp.

(I can't tell you much more about that incident, sorry. I attended that comp, but I didn't pay attention at all to what happenied in Magic/MM because I didn't compete in these events and I had 4BLD/multi to do at the same time.)

 

[AvGalen]

Well, not exactly. First the Magic and Master Magic times were validated normally, the incident got reported only a couple of days later by one of the organizers on the French forum because the delegate hadn't noticed it during the comp.

(I can't tell you much more about that incident, sorry. I attended that comp, but I didn't pay attention at all to what happenied in Magic/MM because I didn't compete in these events and I had 4BLD/multi to do at the same time.)

I assumed that "Irregularity during the judging of the Magic and Master Magic event was discovered during the Magic Open 2011 competition held on December 17-18, 2011 in France. Jean-Louis Mathieu, WCA delegate, submitted a report identifying that [competitor, under 18 years of age] practiced Magic solves at the timer" meant that the report was a normal report, not a special report that was filed a bit later. Are you sure it happened the way you describe it?

 

[TMOY]

Yes I'm sure. I just checked the dates again:

http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/posts/abdelhak-kaddour-wins-magic-open-2011 : the comp got validated on Dec. 19th;

http://forum.francocube.com/topic8877.html: the thread on the French forum started on Dec. 21th, when the Magic/MM results were already entered in the database;

http://worldcubeassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=970 : the announcement about Magic/MM results getting removed was made on Feb. 27th, 2 monthe later.

 

[AvGalen]

Yes I'm sure. I just checked the dates again:

http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/posts/abdelhak-kaddour-wins-magic-open-2011 : the comp got validated on Dec. 19th;

http://forum.francocube.com/topic8877.html: the thread on the French forum started on Dec. 21th, when the Magic/MM results were already entered in the database;

http://worldcubeassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=970 : the announcement about Magic/MM results getting removed was made on Feb. 27th, 2 monthe later.

Thanks for clearing that up. As I said earlier I assumed that the report from the delegate was filed immediately, but apparently it was not. This makes it a bit more comparable. I see that Sebastien has also changed his statement: "To clarify this once and for all: The decision of not accepting the results from Perry Open has absolutely nothing to do with the "4.41" cheating incident. Although, the incident is for sure the reason why these irregularities were revealed."

That seems entirely correct to me.

I am still wondering about the statement that I keep mentioning but that nobody addresses: "My judge and the delegate asked me immediately after the solve what was the state of the cube (the yellow cross pattern that I decided to solve and the f2l) (I guess this was to check if the scramble was the right one) and it was confirmed that the solve was executed correctly and the scramble was correct."

And I am still wondering how many other competitions there have been where rules weren't followed to such a level that the competition shouldn't have been allowed to be an official WCA-competition

 

[Swoncen]

Hello,

there is really alot to read in this thread - would it be possible, if anyone could summarize the outcome? I would appreciate that.

Thanks in advance!

 

[TheNextFeliks]

Hello,

there is really alot to read in this thread - would it be possible, if anyone could summarize the outcome? I would appreciate that.

Thanks in advance!

Some guy pretended to get a 4.41 solve. The wca found it to be fake so they disqualified all of his results for the comp and he is banned for 3 (I think) years.

 

[Wassili]

As for Martin his solve was DNF'd and he is not allowed to enter any competition for 3 years, and as for the competition read this: http://worldcubeassociation.org/foru...9&p=6014#p6014.