Martín Telésforo "4.41 single" DNF - Perry Open, Mexico

[Stefan]

Anyway, it would only work for the first solve since it goes back to the table solved afterwards. I can't actually think of a way to do it.

Take a fake-scrambled cube with you on stage, act angry after your solve and tell your judge something like "that cube sucks, take this one instead" (putting your fake one in front of him) and leave with your solved cube right away. If you're lucky, the judge is inexperienced/shy enough to do it and you'll get your own scramble next.

Note: obviously I don't mean this as an instruction for how to cheat but rather as something judges have to watch out for.

 

[Goosly]

At the competitions where I have been scrambler, we always placed cubes that had not been scrambled on the scoresheet, and scrambled cubes in the coverbox, scoresheet on top or in the box too. I would surely have noticed a not-solved cube being brought to the scrambling table.

 

[hcfong]

Umm no we shouldn't.
Anyway, it would only work for the first solve since it goes back to the table solved afterwards. I can't actually think of a way to do it.

I think it's actually possible to pull this off on any solve. I noticed in UK competitions that many judges bring the solved cube back to the scrambling table and leave it in the cover along with the scoresheet, instead of taking it out for scrambling. This means that such a cube can easily seen by a judge as a scrambled cube. Now, it wouldn't be too hard to, let's say, first find out which people leave the cube in the cover after bringing it back. Once you have someone who does that as judge, after you finished your solve, you do something like a T-perm + Sune + R U R' and then give it to the judge. The cube is then brought back to the scrambling table and left in the cover. The next judge comes and calls you. After a very short inspection, so the judge won't notice anything wrong, you just do the reverse and you have solved the cube. Of course, this will only work with an inexperienced judge, because an experienced one will make you solve the cube first before bringing it back to be scrambled.

OK, just to be clear, this is just an example of how someone could abuse the circumstances. I am NOT recommending this. Do NOT try this at a competition. I actually think it's time to formalise the way cubes should be put on the scrambling table after being solved, so there can be no doubt whether a cube is scrambled or solved.

 

[applemobile]

Best way would be a deterent. Permaban.

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

I think it's actually possible to pull this off on any solve. I noticed in UK competitions that many judges bring the solved cube back to the scrambling table and leave it in the cover along with the scoresheet, instead of taking it out for scrambling...

Yeah, I agree this is where it potentially falls down. Usually when a cube is brought back in a tub, the tub gets emptied by one of the scramblers pretty much straight away, It would be a very small window of time in which it would be possible for this to happen, and judges are told to not bring it back in a tub if they're noticed doing it.

Take a fake-scrambled cube with you on stage, act angry after your solve and tell your judge something like "that cube sucks, take this one instead" (putting your fake one in front of him) and leave with your solved cube right away. If you're lucky, the judge is inexperienced/shy enough to do it and you'll get your own scramble next.

Note: obviously I don't mean this as an instruction for how to cheat but rather as something judges have to watch out for.

I think this would have to happen in conjunction with the cube being left in the tub scenario as hcfong said about above, since when the cube is brought back if its placed on the table scrambled it will be solved before being re-scrambled. Everything not in a tub would be treated the same way.

I think with both of these scenarios, the window of time would be very small in which you could make it happen, and I think it would have to be planned to take place rather than happen by chance.

 

[hcfong]

I think with both of these scenarios, the window of time would be very small in which you could make it happen, and I think it would have to be planned to take place rather than happen by chance.

I don't think the window of time is that small. Especially during 3x3, where cubes can pretty much come back continuously and the scrambles are scrambling continuously, it's easy to miss out on a cube returning. When I'm scrambling, I'm not paying attention to what's coming back. I just assume (I admit a bit optimistically) that whatever is in the tub is scrambled and ready to be taken by a judge and whatever is not in the tub needs scrambling.

I've had to send my cube back several times because it wasn't scrambled and I had to bring a cube back several times for the same reason. So it does happen.

 

[Zoé]

I don't think the window of time is that small. Especially during 3x3, where cubes can pretty much come back continuously and the scrambles are scrambling continuously, it's easy to miss out on a cube returning. When I'm scrambling, I'm not paying attention to what's coming back. I just assume (I admit a bit optimistically) that whatever is in the tub is scrambled and ready to be taken by a judge and whatever is not in the tub needs scrambling.

I've had to send my cube back several times because it wasn't scrambled and I had to bring a cube back several times for the same reason. So it does happen.

Same here... it happened to me so many times as a judge to pick up an un-scrambled cube because they were in the tub covered with the scorecard as if they were ready. And as a scrambler I really get annoyed by people giving the cube back in the tub because it makes it so much harder to keep track of what needs scrambling or not!

Another very easy way to cheat would be to get a friend to memorize a scramble by heart then apply it on your cube during the competition. This could be easily done if there are lot of cubes waiting to be scrambled and scramblers can't keep up with them. When that happens, it isn't unusual for judges to step behind the scrambling table and give a hand to the scramblers. Your friend could then perfectly start helping with the scrambling, pick up your cube and apply the memorized scramble sequence while looking at the paper as if he was applying the right scramble.
Since the scrambler is responsible for checking if the scramble has been applied correctly, I'm pretty sure he could just put the cube in the tub, someone would pick it up to
judge it and no one would ever suspect anything.

Adding an intermediate " checking the scrambles" between scrambling and judging, done by someone that is not the judge nor the scramblers would definitely reduce the risk of an incident like this happening. It has actually been done in the past already during some finals. Maybe it could be done on a more regular basis?

 

[windhero]

Best way would be a deterent. Permaban.

Seriously, I would like this a lot. Iron fist and all that.

It would just mean that there has to be a way to 100% prove that the person is infact guilty. Can't leave a permanent ban to chance.

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

Seriously, I would like this a lot. Iron fist and all that.

It would just mean that there has to be a way to 100% prove that the person is infact guilty. Can't leave a permanent ban to chance.

Also, 3 years is still a very long time for a hobby, and especially for the rate at which speedcubing progresses. After 3 years of not being able to compete, I think that most of your drive to cube will have gone away. It's basically a lifetime ban.

 

[Ton]

Don't scramble a single cube until all cubes from that round are solved on scorecards. Simple.

This means you will need a lot of time per event extra especially for big cubes

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

This means you will need a lot of time per event extra especially for big cubes

Well when a cube comes on scorecards at the start of a group we enforce that they have to be solved at UK comps, people know their round is coming up and it never really causes problems.

 

[windhero]

Also, 3 years is still a very long time for a hobby, and especially for the rate at which speedcubing progresses. After 3 years of not being able to compete, I think that most of your drive to cube will have gone away. It's basically a lifetime ban.

I wouldnt agree with that; I've been cubing for 5 years more or less actively and I've never been to a comp. 10 years might do the trick maybe, as imo most people wouldnt stick to a single hobby for that long and people that would cube for more than 10 years wouldnt dare to destroy their chances to compete by cheating.

Cheating is an attribute of short-sighted persons in my opinion. Especially trying to fake a WR

 

[uniacto]

While he's banned, he could practice with a burning passion for revenge and be sub 8 in 2016. Haha

 

[YddEd]

While he's banned, he could practice with a burning passion for revenge and be sub 8 in 2016. Haha

Maybe even cheat again

 

[Dene]

But imagine how unwelcome he will be back at Mexico competitions. He probably won't want to come back.

 

[wontolla]

Is there any record of someone who was banned and came back to a competition after the sentence?

 

[TMOY]

Is there any record of someone who was banned and came back to a competition after the sentence?

http://worldcubeassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=808

It was Yuxuan Wang. After his ban, he came back and broke the Magic/Master Magic WRs several times. But he got banned for only 4 months, not several years.

 

[hcfong]

http://worldcubeassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=808

It was Yuxuan Wang. After his ban, he came back and broke the Magic/Master Magic WRs several times. But he got banned for only 4 months, not several years.

But he admitted it pretty soon after it happened himself, without anyone suspecting him. I think when you admit it yourself, people are much more inclined to forgive and be lenient. Completely off-topic, but now I read this, why was this guy, who admitted pretty much straight away after the competition banned and got all his results removed, while Rowe, who admitted to cheating 4 years later and cheated on a WR, got away with only a DNF for that solve and no ban at all?

Back on topic. I don't think anyone with a long term ban has returned. Pino's ban ended last week, so he could be the first. But like the other 2 who got long term bans, he never admitted to cheating so I don't think he will be welcomed back with open arms.

edit: Just to clarify, i wasn't comparing Rowe with Martin but with Yuxuan Wang.

 

[uniacto]

But he admitted it pretty soon after it happened himself, without anyone suspecting him. I think when you admit it yourself, people are much more inclined to forgive and be lenient. Completely off-topic, but now I read this, why was this guy, who admitted pretty much straight away after the competition banned and got all his results removed, while Rowe, who admitted to cheating 4 years later and cheated on a WR, got away with only a DNF for that solve and no ban at all?

Back on topic. I don't think anyone with a long term ban has returned. Pino's ban ended last week, so he could be the first. But like the other 2 who got long term bans, he never admitted to cheating so I don't think he will be welcomed back with open arms.

I think it's because he's a long term member of the speedcubing community and that they went a bit lenient on him. Sorta like Kirjava and how he probably won't get permabanned from the forum (imho).

 

[Florian]

I think WCA should reduce the ban down to 9 months if he tells WCA how he did it, since there definetly needs to be some sort of refinement for competitions in order to prevent such things. I mean if it would've been let's say a 8.13 solve no-body would've found out about the cheating.