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Journey to ZBLL + Why ZBLL is so important

Will you learn ZBLL?


  • Total voters
    51
Joined
Aug 30, 2020
Messages
266
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On a long train journey, Smashin' PBs one a stop
I've worked on ZB for 5 years. The first 3 years were primarily development of the method (thousands of hours spent revamping the algorithms through play with the cube and relentless CubeExplorer searching). During this time I constantly relearnt algs as I discovered faster ones. As I became more fluent with ZB (ZBLL + ZBLS), I expanded the system to work out inefficiencies never before highlighted as I ventured into uncharted waters in the world of speedcubing.

The last two years have been working towards mastery of the method based on the foundation I created myself. Considering I've maintained a top100 average in 3x3 during this time, I do believe I am "fast." Max indeed *was* the world champion in 3x3 (he is currently not), and he is indeed faster at solving the cube than I am. However, this does not justify your argument.

At the end of the day, my speedcubing resume speaks for itself. From a competitive standpoint alone, I've been top 100 for nearly a decade, only Feliks and Mats can claim the same.

@eastamazonantidote: what's up man, if kids these days only knew what we've been through...
Are there any video resources for learning ZBLL (on YT). Just asking cuz learning recog through Algsheets can be a pain imo. (Please prove me wrong, @Tao Yu , @Anthony )

Uhh... Another thing:
How do you set up cases on CE ?Inversing algs is HARD
 
Last edited:

Tao Yu

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I've worked on ZB for 5 years. The first 3 years were primarily development of the method (thousands of hours spent revamping the algorithms through play with the cube and relentless CubeExplorer searching). During this time I constantly relearnt algs as I discovered faster ones. As I became more fluent with ZB (ZBLL + ZBLS), I expanded the system to work out inefficiencies never before highlighted as I ventured into uncharted waters in the world of speedcubing.

The last two years have been working towards mastery of the method based on the foundation I created myself. Considering I've maintained a top100 average in 3x3 during this time, I do believe I am "fast." Max indeed *was* the world champion in 3x3 (he is currently not), and he is indeed faster at solving the cube than I am. However, this does not justify your argument.

At the end of the day, my speedcubing resume speaks for itself. From a competitive standpoint alone, I've been top 100 for nearly a decade, only Feliks and Mats can claim the same.

@eastamazonantidote: what's up man, if kids these days only knew what we've been through...

Edit: actually now that I check, I’ve been top 100 for *over* a decade.
You really make some important points here in a more eloquent way than I was able. Even when you have to find many algs by yourself, there's enough time to work on ZBLL and stay a top cuber. One can't only spend ones time on the things that objectively bring the most improvement for the least amount of work. Sometimes you need to work on those things that require a lot of work, exactly because they bring a tiny amount of improvement.

Are there any video resources for learning ZBLL (on YT). Just asking cuz learning recog through Algsheets can be a pain imo. (Please prove me wrong, @Tao Yu , @Anthony )
I haven't seen many video resources, and disagree with the ones I've seen.

My recognition method is based around the following doc. At the start I just learn from one angle, and I find with a lot of training I pick up on more angles. I'm not sure everybody will agree with this (I'd be curious what Anthony thinks), but I think Daniel Rose-Levine uses something in the same spirit as this.

I think it's difficult to learn recognition for cases in isolation. I always learn a set of 12 or 8 algs at once because it allows me to get used to seeing the differences and similarities between cases. I also start off by testing myself randomly on the algs (before I even know them) so that I am practising my ability to recognize the algs in the conditions of a real solve from the very start.

Uhh... Another thing:
How do you set up cases on CE ?Inversing algs is HARD
Press "Add and Generate" instead of "Add and Solve". I'd recommend watching Daniel Sheppard's CE tutorial if you haven't already. I'd also recommend learning algexplorer if you can (it's a bit finicky to set up)
 

Nir1213

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Aug 31, 2020
Messages
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FveF-we6lcE
I don't think the statement that ZBLL is important makes any sense unless you're saying what it's for. So many of the arguments at the start of this thread don't make any sense to me. Clearly there are things that ZBLL is good for, and things which ZBLL is overkill for. If you're just aiming for a 8-9 average
ZBLL is very clearly just a lot of unnecessary effort and you'd be better off spending your time on F2L. On the other hand, top cubers learn large portions of ZBLL because it does give them an advantage, and it makes sense to start earlier if you do want to know a large part of it.



I agree with this however.
yep you have a point. I tell people to at least start at sub 8, but that might not be even enough. You have to be really good at f2l and cross, and then you might think of 1LLL.
 

Tao Yu

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A lot of people really seemed to be tied to this idea that you have to justify learning ZBLL somehow, and that you should only do it if it's "worth it". Even when people state that they are learning the algs for fun, people really don't seem to be able to let go of the idea.

There are quite a few examples of people who actually did learn ZBLL just for fun, and without any intention to make it "worth it". To give some examples (only including people I've personally talked to), there is me, Callum Hales-Jepp and Micki Kanaiya Harning. As far as I know, none of us are sub 8 and definitely didn't need full ZBLL to achieve our global averages. I don't think any of us regret learning it.

If you really want encourage people not to learn ZBLL (for some reason) you should probably instead cast doubt on whether they really find it fun to learn algs. From my experience, it is actually quite rare to enjoy learning big algsets, and sometimes it's a thing you think you'd enjoy until you actually try to do it. I've seen quite a few people initially claim they like learning algs, but quickly get bored when they try to tackle something like ZBLL.
 

Nir1213

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Joined
Aug 31, 2020
Messages
881
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FveF-we6lcE
But I thought he wanted to learn them
later on he might just stop.
I've seen quite a few people initially claim they like learning algs, but quickly get bored when they try to tackle something like ZBLL.
Just saying, make sure you know what your dealing with before you go on to learning big algsets.
 
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