interesting ZZ Variation (maybe)

[cardsNcubes]

Hey guys (and gals), I just had an interesting idea that may work with methods like ZZ and Petrus.

If you've ever solved a Siamese cube or scrambled and solved your cube using only R, r, U, and M turns, you have probably noticed that after OLL your corners are already permuted. I realized that this was automatic COLL using R and U corner OLLs. So I thought about how this could be adapted to ZZ, as that is what I use. Sort of like the EO step in Petrus, being done after the 2x2x3 block has been built.

Is there some way to intuitively turn your cube with a 2x2x3 block and EO completed, into a 'Siamese' cube?:confused:


P.S. I know about COLL, however I was thinking more along the lines of an intuitive method.

Thanks...

 

[Cride5]

...scrambled and solved your cube using only R, r, U, and M turns, you have probably noticed that after OLL your corners are already permuted.

Are you sure?

 

[Johannes91]

...scrambled and solved your cube using only R, r, U, and M turns, you have probably noticed that after OLL your corners are already permuted.

Are you sure?

Here's a proof: http://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/pgl25.htm.

This isn't a new idea. Usually it's been suggested for Petrus and doing it in Step 3 at the same time as flipping the bad edges, but the recognization is just not easy.

 

[Cride5]

...scrambled and solved your cube using only R, r, U, and M turns, you have probably noticed that after OLL your corners are already permuted.

Are you sure?

Here's a proof: http://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/pgl25.htm.

This isn't a new idea. Usually it's been suggested for Petrus and doing it in Step 3 at the same time as flipping the bad edges, but the recognization is just not easy.

... and here was me thinking that r is equivalent to L .. oh dear

But yer, this is the so-called missing link in the ZZ-d variation. It reduces the cube into the <R,U> group during the final L-side insertions on F2L, and as Johannes says, recognition is horrible!

 

[JLarsen]

Cride is the only zz use I respect. =D

Try and get real fast with it please. I'd like to see that.

 

[Cride5]

Lolz, I wouldn't hold yer breath! Give me a couple years

 

[fanwuq]

Cride is the only zz use I respect. =D

Try and get real fast with it please. I'd like to see that.

You don't even respect ZZ himself?

 

[cardsNcubes]

But yer, this is the so-called missing link in the ZZ-d variation. It reduces the cube into the <R,U> group during the final L-side insertions on F2L, and as Johannes says, recognition is horrible!

Ah, see I thought that the missing link was to permute two opposite edges, which would allow a smaller number of ZBLL cases. However, even though recognition may be horrible, does anyone actually know how to accomplish this?

 

[blah]

Ah, see I thought that the missing link was to permute two opposite edges, which would allow a smaller number of ZBLL cases. However, even though recognition may be horrible, does anyone actually know how to accomplish this?

Yes. I've had a thread on this earlier. I'll post the link here once I've found it.

 

[blah]

Here it is.

And, bump, too.

 

[cardsNcubes]

Here it is.

And, bump, too.

Thanks, I thought I remembered someone having a thread on it. However, I've (somewhat) worked out a possible way to do this. Basically it would be the EO step in Petrus, but with corners.

1. Place the DFR and DBR corners. (no orientation needed.)
2. Align UFL corner & Permute the upper corners
3. Solve right block using <R,U>
4. Solve ELL

At the moment, I'm using a J perm and A Y perm for corner permutation. However there are probably quicker 2-gen algs that would be better. Can anyone make a suggestion for such algs?

 

[blah]

Don't think it's a good idea to restrict yourself to first solve the left block then the right. Freestyle blockbuilding seems better, i.e. you should be able to do 2 1x2x2 blocks and 2 1x1x2 blocks in any order. 1x1x3 blocks generally aren't good for speedsolving.

 

[Lord Voldemort]

@ cardsNcubes - I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that there is no 2-gen algorithm to permute corners. Or are you talking about 2-gen after a cube rotation (Like if you have only R and U faces left to solve, then permute with <L,U> or <F,U> or something?)? One thing that I can think of is coming up with algorithms that ignore corner orientation, as you'd get probably shorter algorithms. I've also read somewhere (I can't remember where) that it takes a maximum of two extra moves to permute corners, but it may have been a minimum of two extra moves.

Cride is the only zz use I respect. =D

If you were the only Petrus user I knew, I would have absolutely no respect for Petrus users either. Stop overgeneralizing. You seem to have some sort of irrational hate for ZZ users.

 

[ChaosWZ]

well ive been working on what youre talking about, so if im right steps go like this

eoline, 2x2x3, f2l, ll

well

if you switch the order around a bit and make it like this

2x2x3, eoline, f2l, ll

its a good method, but in essence petrus,

well thats all i got idk if i understood this right though

 

[StachuK1992]

Chaos. That *is* Petrus.

 

[Lord Voldemort]

You've already created the line of EOline with the 2x2x3, so it boils down to 2x2x3, EO, F2L, LL. Sound familiar at all?