Importance of Method

[MaikeruKonare]

So today I did some method tests, I did full basic, basic + F2L, and full CFOP.

For full basic I got this
Number of solves: 5
Best Time: 30.50
Worst Time: 43.17
Session Avg: 36.55
Individual Times:
(43.17), 35.34, 40.16, 34.16, (30.50)

For basic + F2L
Number of solves: 5
Best Time: 25.56
Worst Time: 34.52
Session Avg: 27.97
Individual Times:
(34.52), 29.27, (25.56), 26.67, 27.96

CFOP 4LLL (2L OLL and 2L PLL)
Number of solves: 5
Best Time: 24.01
Worst Time: 29.06
Session Avg: 26.14
Individual Times:
27.23, (29.06), 25.93, 25.26, (24.01)

Full CFOP (full OLL and PLL)
Number of solves: 5
Best Time: 18.33
Worst Time: 23.43
Session Avg: 21.05
Individual Times:
20.82, (18.33), 20.25, 22.07, (23.43)

So adding F2L to basic enhanced the time by 9 seconds, adding 4LLL enhanced it by two more seconds, and adding the rest of CFOP enhanced it by another 5 seconds for a total of 16 seconds of improvement. This means that (for me) switching from basic to CFOP gave me a 16 second gain.
I'm curious to see how constant this change is as you add bits and pieces. I'm also curious to see how it affects people at different speeds, like how the different ao5s vary with someone who is sub 15 or with someone who is 90 seconds or higher. Do these different ao5s and post your times here, please!

 

[mark49152]

Ao5 is too small a sample (unless all you want is a rough indicator that one method is loads faster than another).

 

[MaikeruKonare]

Full CFOP is 2LLL.
I will add 4LLL tonight.

 

[Yuxuibbs]

I agree with the ao5 isn't enough info but it takes too long and gets too frustrating going back to slower methods. I think we should change it to an ao12 instead of ao5 so that it's a slightly bigger sample size.

Over the next few days/week(s) (NOTE: actually finished in 1 day) I'll do an ao12 each for LBL, LBL + F2L, LBL + 4LLL, LBL + 3LLL, LBL + 2LLL, CFOP + 4LLL, CFOP + 3LLL, and full CFOP. As of right now, I average almost sub 13 (got a sub 13 ao100 a few weeks ago but I haven't really confirmed by doing more ao100s to make sure I'm sub 13 yet)

I'm just going to keep editing this post.
LBL: 30.01

Spoiler

Average of 12: 30.01
1. 28.70 B2 D' R2 D' L2 D' R2 D2 R2 F2 D2 B U F D' B L F U2 L2 D
2. 29.07 D' F2 R2 U2 L2 R2 U F2 U B L' U F2 D2 U R2 D L'
3. 30.88 U L2 F B D B' U2 R' F L' F2 U' R2 B2 D B2 R2 B2 U' B2 R2
4. 32.89 B2 U2 B U2 R2 U2 B' U2 B D2 F2 L U' R2 B' F U F2 U' F U'
5. (33.28) B' L2 D2 B2 R2 B' L2 R2 B' R2 D2 L B2 D U' R2 F2 L' B R'
6. 28.76 U B2 U' R2 U' F2 U' L2 U' F2 U2 R' D' R' F' D' B' L' F' U2 L2
7. (24.62) D2 R2 F' D2 L2 B' U2 B L2 B' U2 R B F2 R2 D' R F2 D2 R F2
8. 31.05 L' D2 R' D2 F2 R' D2 L U2 L' F2 U F' D' R2 B2 L D' U2 B'
9. 25.73 R2 F2 D F2 U' B2 L2 U2 R2 U' F2 L U R' B D2 L F2 D R2 F
10. 31.33 B U L' U R B2 R2 D2 L' D2 L2 U2 B U2 B' L2 U2 B R2 F2
11. 29.72 D2 B2 D B2 U B2 U' F2 D L2 F2 L F2 L' B L' U2 R2 F' D B'
12. 31.94 L B2 L2 B2 D2 L' F2 D2 L R' F2 U' B R D' B2 R F' U2 F2

LBL + F2L: 24.37

Spoiler

Average of 12: 24.37
1. 21.04 F2 U2 F2 D B2 F2 U2 L2 D' F2 R2 B' L' F2 U' R2 F' L2 U' R'
2. 24.69 U' F2 U R2 F2 U' L2 B2 D2 U' F' D2 B' R2 U L R' B D' R D2
3. 24.65 F2 D2 B2 D2 F R2 D2 F2 U2 F' R' F L2 D U R U2 L' R2
4. 22.32 D2 U' L2 B2 D2 B2 R2 F2 R2 U2 F' L' R2 F' U R F2 D L R'
5. 24.53 U2 B2 L2 F L2 R2 B' U2 F' U2 F L F R2 D' F' L R D2 U L2
6. 24.26 B' R' F' D B' R B2 D B2 L2 B2 R B2 U2 R' L2 B2 R' U2
7. 28.64 F2 D2 B2 U2 B' U2 R2 D2 U2 B F2 U B D' R' D2 U' L' D2 B R
8. 26.95 U R2 F2 U2 L2 D2 L2 D B2 F2 L2 B' U B U' L R D2 B' D' U'
9. 23.66 U F R2 D' B' D B2 U F' L U2 R' F2 L D2 R' B2 U2 F2 U2
10. (17.71) F' L2 B' R2 B2 L2 U2 R2 U2 R2 F' U' R2 U R' B R F2 U
11. (28.78) U2 L U2 R' D2 U2 R B2 U2 F2 R D F U' B D U F' R D2
12. 22.99 R2 U2 F2 D' U2 F2 L2 U' R2 U' L2 R' U2 F' U' R2 D B2 L' F' R

LBL + 4LLL: 24.27

Spoiler

Average of 12: 24.27
1. (19.25) D2 R2 B2 D2 U2 B' R2 F2 D2 F L2 U R' B' F2 L' U2 R F D2 F2
2. 28.65 L2 U2 B U2 F R' D F R U B2 U2 R2 U2 R2 D' B2 D2 B2 L2
3. 27.50 B2 U2 L' F2 D2 B2 R2 F2 L U2 B2 F' L B2 F D B2 R' B F2 D
4. 24.82 B2 R2 D2 F U2 B' U2 B' U2 R2 F D' R' B2 R B' L2 F L2 U' B2
5. (29.75) F2 D2 F R2 U2 B R2 D2 F2 L2 F' D' B' U' B U F2 R F2 U' R2
6. 24.45 R' U2 L2 F2 D2 U2 L B2 R B2 D F' U B' D L B L' R D2 F'
7. 23.71 B L2 F D2 R2 B L2 B' D2 R2 F2 R' D' R' D2 R' U L' F U2 F'
8. 19.48 B' U2 F' R2 F' D2 R2 F' D2 B2 L2 U L2 U R U' B' L' B' D
9. 27.39 R2 D' R2 B2 D' U' R2 F2 D2 B2 U' R B2 R2 D' F U2 L F' U2
10. 20.90 R L' F' B2 D' R2 D F' R' U' D2 F R2 F B' U2 B' L2 D2 R2 F2
11. 23.77 D2 U2 B' L2 D2 B2 D2 B D2 R2 U2 R' F2 D' B D2 U B2 R' U L
12. 22.05 B2 U2 L' B2 L' U D' B L' B R2 F' D2 B' R2 U2 B' U2 B2 U2

LBL + 3LLL: 20.99

Spoiler

Average of 12: 20.99
1. 18.16 R2 B2 R2 D' U' F2 U R2 B2 L2 R' B' U' L' D2 B L F2 R' F
2. 18.02 D2 U2 R2 B2 D2 B' R2 U2 B' F' U' L' D' U F L2 D F2 L' D2
3. 19.24 D2 L2 U2 F2 R2 F' U2 R2 B D2 F R' U R2 B R2 F' D' L' U2 L2
4. (26.65) F2 U' L2 B2 L2 R2 D R2 U F2 D' L D R' U B D' B2 L' F D2
5. 24.38 B' D2 F' L2 B2 D2 B2 U2 L2 F2 R' B D F2 D' L2 D' F' L'
6. 26.56 U2 L' U2 B2 U2 B2 L' D2 L' D2 L2 D L2 F D' B L' D' U' F' L
7. 17.81 B' L2 R2 U2 B D2 R2 B' L2 D2 L2 U B D' B2 L' F2 L' B' F U'
8. 22.10 B2 F2 U' B2 U' B2 F2 D' F2 D2 R2 B D2 R D L' U R' B2 R F
9. 23.68 D F2 U B2 L2 U B2 D B2 F2 U2 L' R' U' L' F' R D' B F2 R
10. (16.82) F2 D2 B' U2 R U F2 U' R' L2 D L2 U2 F2 D' L2 D2 L2 F2
11. 20.13 B2 U R2 D2 B2 U R2 U B2 R2 U' L U2 R' U' B2 F D' R B2
12. 19.79 F2 D2 R2 U2 R2 F' L2 B' D2 F D2 U L' D B' F' L2 R D' U2 B'

LBL + 2LLL: 20.05

Spoiler

Average of 12: 20.05
1. (23.06) R2 D R2 D U2 B2 D B2 L2 B2 U' L D' L D' L2 B' R2 F' U' L2
2. 19.96 U R2 B2 F2 D' L2 U' R2 D' B2 U L U B2 L U2 L D' U' F L
3. 21.21 R B R B2 L' D' R2 B L2 D F2 R2 D2 R2 B R2 F D2 R2 B' R2
4. 17.98 D2 R' U L F D B D F' R F R2 F2 U L2 D F2 B2 D B2
5. 19.91 U2 F2 L2 F' U2 R2 B' U2 B F' U2 R' B2 D L B' F' U2 F L2 D
6. 19.70 B' U2 B2 L2 F D2 R2 D2 L2 F2 D U B' R' U F' L' D B2 F'
7. 21.04 F D2 R2 B' L2 F2 R2 B' L2 B' U2 L' B2 D U' B R' D2 B F L
8. 19.35 F L2 F2 D2 F D2 R2 U2 F' R2 B R' U' F2 U L2 U' F L' U2 L2
9. 20.21 D2 L' B2 L2 F2 R' F2 L F2 R B R' B2 D L' R' U' F D2
10. (17.36) B2 F2 L2 F2 D2 R B2 R2 D2 L F2 D U B L' U2 R2 F2 D' L' D
11. 19.57 U2 L' U2 B2 L D2 U2 L B2 L' R' F' D L2 B F2 U2 B' D R2
12. 21.58 R2 B2 L2 D' F2 U2 R2 U' L2 U' L' R D2 F' D R B2 D' F' U2

CFOP + 4LLL: 18.48

Spoiler

Average of 12: 18.48
1. 18.53 L' F B2 R F B U' L2 D R' L2 D2 B2 U' L2 B2 U' F2 D' B2 L2
2. (15.84) F2 U' L2 D2 R2 D' F2 D' R2 D' F2 L' R D F' D2 U' B' R2 D' U2
3. 17.71 U B2 U' L2 F2 U L2 R2 U' L2 U2 L' D2 B' U' B U' B D'
4. 18.66 L2 F2 R2 B D2 R2 B U2 R2 F' U2 L' F2 L' D' B F' U2 L' U' L'
5. 18.25 U' R U2 B' D F2 L F' B2 R L2 U' R2 F2 U B2 R2 U R2 F2 D'
6. (23.15) D2 R' D' B' U' F U L U R L2 U D2 B2 D L2 U' B2 U' F2 R2
7. 16.16 F' B2 R F' D B R' F2 L F' L2 U L2 B2 U2 D' R2 U2 F2 R2 D'
8. 19.86 D2 B2 D' R2 U L2 D F2 D' B2 U' F R2 D' L B U2 L B' F' L2
9. 19.41 L2 U2 B D2 B R2 B2 L2 D2 F L' B F' R U B' R2 U' L' R'
10. 17.16 B2 L2 D' L2 U R2 U B2 U B2 D' L' U B' D' R B2 R' U2 F D2
11. 21.32 R B2 L2 D2 U2 F2 U2 R' U2 L' D2 B D' F2 L D' R U L2 F
12. 17.71 U2 L2 D' L2 U' L2 B2 L2 U' B2 U2 F' L' F R2 U' L U' B2 R U'

CFOP + 3LLL: 17.27

Spoiler

Average of 12: 17.27
1. 18.17 F2 U2 L2 B D2 B D2 F2 D2 F' D B' L B R' D2 U' L2 U2 B' L
2. 18.58 D2 B D2 F D2 L2 B2 D2 B L2 D2 R U2 L D' B2 F2 R D' B' R2
3. 18.56 F L2 R2 F2 D2 F' D2 F2 D2 F' R' F' R' U' B R2 D2 F2 U' F
4. 15.85 R2 D2 B2 L R U2 R U2 B2 U2 R2 U R B2 U' R' F2 D F R U
5. 16.73 L2 B2 L2 F U2 L2 B' L2 F L2 R' B' R2 F' R D2 B2 R U' R2
6. 16.53 L2 D F2 U2 L2 D R2 D' B2 L2 U2 B' R2 B D2 R' U' L D U' B'
7. 18.24 F2 U2 B U2 L2 F' D2 R2 B L2 F' R' U L R' F U F' L' B'
8. 16.26 F2 U2 L U2 L D2 F2 R' B2 R2 B2 U F R B' U' F L' U F
9. (19.07) R2 B2 L2 U2 B' U2 F2 D2 U2 B' F' L' U2 R' U' F2 R F' D' L' U'
10. 16.89 D' L2 D' B2 L2 F2 R2 D' U' F2 D' F' L F R2 B' D U' R' D2 R
11. (14.95) R2 U L2 R2 B2 D2 L2 U B2 R2 F' R' B F D' U' B2 L D2 F'
12. 16.86 U F2 U2 L2 R2 B2 L2 D B2 U' R2 F R' F' L2 B' L2 D U' R F

CFOP: 12.33

Spoiler

Average of 12: 12.33
1. 14.73 D L2 D2 R2 U' L2 D' B2 F2 U' F2 R D2 U2 F2 R U' R2 B' F' L'
2. 12.71 U2 R2 F2 D2 F L2 U2 B' L2 R2 B' R' B' F' L' U' B2 F' U R' D'
3. (9.31) L2 D2 F2 U2 B2 L U2 L' R D2 R U L' B' F' D L U' B U L'
4. 12.79 L' D2 R D2 F2 L' B2 L' U2 R2 F D R' D2 L2 D B2 L' R' F'
5. 10.53 U2 B2 R B' R B R L' F' D' F2 R2 U F2 U F2 R2 D2 B2 U
6. 10.34 R D2 F' R B' D L' F2 B' L D2 R2 L2 B2 U2 R2 D' F2 D B2 U2
7. 12.98 F2 U' R D2 L D B' U' B R B2 L B2 D2 B2 R L D2 B2 R
8. 11.81 D R' F' B' L U D B D F' D' F2 B2 D F2 B2 L2 B2 D' F2 U2
9. (14.89) D2 L2 D' F2 U2 R2 U' B2 R2 F2 U2 L R U' F D2 B' L' R B U
10. 10.87 U2 L2 U' B2 D' L2 D' B2 U L2 U2 B L2 B' R' F2 D F2 L' U2 B'
11. 13.62 D R' B' L U R D F' B R' L2 D' R2 B2 U D2 B2 L2 B2 D B2
12. 12.91 U2 L2 B2 L2 U' F2 D F2 L2 D2 R2 F' R' F2 U R2 U2 L' R F D

Adding another one.
CFOP + half of OLL (2 look OLL with the easy "free" OLLs you get when you learn 2 look OLL) + Full PLL: 13.12

Spoiler

Average of 12: 13.12
1. 12.26 B2 D2 B2 D U F2 U F2 L2 B2 L2 B R' F U L2 F2 D R U' F2
2. 14.27 F2 L F' U B2 L' D R' D' F U B2 R2 D' B2 D2 B2 L2 F2 D L2
3. 14.45 L2 B2 D2 L' U2 L F2 U2 L' F2 D2 U F R2 U2 L' F' U2 F2 U
4. (10.70) B2 L2 B2 L2 B L2 B D2 F U2 B' U' B R2 D2 U' R D' B F
5. 11.61 D2 F' D2 R' U L D R B' L' D R2 U' F2 R2 B2 U R2 L2 U'
6. 12.97 F U2 B2 D2 F U2 R2 D2 B' R2 U2 R U' B' F2 R D L2 D2 F2 U'
7. 13.97 D2 L2 B2 U2 B2 R F B L' U F' U2 F' U2 B2 R2 U2 R2 F D2 F2
8. 14.33 F2 U2 L2 D2 U' R2 F2 L2 U' B2 D F L2 D' L' F' U B' L D2 L
9. 14.27 L B2 D2 R' U2 R' B2 R2 D2 B2 F2 U F' D2 B D' F2 L B' F2 R
10. 11.29 D2 B2 D L2 B2 D L2 F2 U B2 L' D' L' U' R2 B' L R' B F'
11. (15.79) F2 D2 R2 F2 D2 F U2 F' D2 L2 B2 D R2 B U F D2 L' D' B F2
12. 11.73 D R2 D' R2 F2 U L2 D2 L2 D' B2 R' B' D L' R' B U' B' F2 U'

Wow I miss all those skips you get during LBL solves.

 

[slinky773]

I'll try too. I'll do what Yuxuibbs is doing and edit this post.

Spoiler: LBL

Ao12: 45.29
(31.78)
47.46
47.26
41.09
36.31
36.75
53.75
48.07
47.47
(57.53)
41.31
53.38

LBL + F2L:
LBL + 4LLL:
LBL + 3LLL:
LBL + 2LLL:
CFOP + 4LLL:
CFOP + 3LLL:
CFOP:

 

[uvafan]

I agree with the ao5 isn't enough info but it takes too long and gets too frustrating going back to slower methods. I think we should change it to an ao12 instead of ao5 so that it's a slightly bigger sample size.

Over the next few days/week(s) I'll do an ao12 each for LBL, LBL + F2L, LBL + 4LLL, LBL + 3LLL, LBL + 2LLL, CFOP + 4LLL, CFOP + 3LLL, and full CFOP. As of right now, I average almost sub 13 (got a sub 13 ao100 a few weeks ago but I haven't really confirmed by doing more ao100s to make sure I'm sub 13 yet)

I'm just going to keep editing this post.
LBL:
LBL + F2L:
LBL + 4LLL:
LBL + 3LLL:
LBL + 2LLL:
CFOP + 4LLL:
CFOP + 3LLL:
CFOP:

What's the difference between LBL, LBL+F2L(wtf), and LBL+4LLL?

 

[waffle=ijm]

I don't know what he actually meant but Layer By Layer doesn't necessarily mean First Second Third. Belt style LBL or Sandwich style LBL and the sort as well.

 

[mark49152]

Ao5 isn't enough but doing ao12s days apart will be misleading too due to changes in form. I suggest doing one solve of each method in a row Then repeat. Repeat on subsequent days and keep cycling until you have enough samples, then average. (I do this for timing splits.)

 

[Yuxuibbs]

What's the difference between LBL, LBL+F2L(wtf), and LBL+4LLL?

When I say LBL, I'm actually talking about the dan brown method with the cross, corners, E layer edges, EO EP CP CO for LL.
So the normal LBL method that some people learn with easy transition to CFOP would actually be LBL + 4LLL with cross, corners, E layer edges, 2 look OLL, and 2 look PLL. LBL + F2L would just be cross, F2L, and EO EP CP CO for LL.

Update:
Finished my 108 solves.
Short version:
LBL: 30.01
LBL + F2L: 24.37
LBL + 4LLL: 24.27
LBL + 3LLL: 20.99
LBL + 2LLL: 20.05
CFOP + 4LLL: 18.48
CFOP + 3LLL: 17.27
CFOP: 12.33
CFOP + half of OLL (2 look OLL with the easy "free" OLLs you get when you learn 2 look OLL) + Full PLL: 13.12

pretty interesting.

 

[Athefre]

My method is more important than your method.

 

[~Adam~]

I average about 16secs with CFOP and 25secs with 'basic' however I do a middle layer edge flipping alg and H perm because I teach people edge flipping with beginners method and H is only 7 moves.

I do, cross, corners, middle edges, OC, PC, OE, PE intuitively (except H).