[Help Thread] Hoya Discussion

[Chree]

1st off I think it's funny that people started using my actual name on here. I might change my username to something sensible like Adam.

Also when Hoya came over for a comp in the summer I asked him to show me some example solves and he seemed to be able to see immediately when he didn't need to do the 2nd setup move ON 5x5! That was really surprising to me.

Haha... if you mind I can refer to you by your username instead Sorry about that

And let be honest... that guy is a wizard. I'm sure he knows more patterns to L2C than a lot of us. For 4x4, my L2C is purely algorithmic... but on 5x5 and above, I instinctively always do both moves, even when I don't have to. One of my many bad habits. But since I don't use slice moves that much, it's pretty rare that I could've skipped it.

 

[~Adam~]

Haha... if you mind I can refer to you by your username instead Sorry about that

And let be honest... that guy is a wizard. I'm sure he knows more patterns to L2C than a lot of us. For 4x4, my L2C is purely algorithmic... but on 5x5 and above, I instinctively always do both moves, even when I don't have to. One of my many bad habits. But since I don't use slice moves that much, it's pretty rare that I could've skipped it.

No problem at all. I will probably change it soon.

Hoya did seem to do quite a lot of slice moves. During cross for pieces on BR and BL he would setup with a double M2 slice then for example U R' U' then undo slice.

 

[shadowslice e]

F4C: 10-15
Cross: 20-22
L2C: 3
L8E: 15
3x3x3: 25

So... What should I work on?

 

[mark49152]

Can you clarify what you do after L2C in your example? Maybe I'm missing something basic, but it feels like solving that last cross tredge with freeslice and then finishing Cross wouldn't be any easier. At least not without solving the cross "wrong", like "Yau Last Cross Piece Style". And my Hoya tredges are pretty efficient, so I'm not seeing a disadvantage there.

I haven't even tried a single solve - it was just an idea. I was thinking I would Hoya three cross tredges into the correct positions. Then leave the unsolved position at DF and solve L2C. No need for any setup moves. After L2C, I would freeslice the next 5 tredges and try to make sure DF was one of them. Not sure why I would ever solve it wrong. After that, I don't know. Maybe Yau5 back slots?

 

[OLLiver]

ok more hoya help needed/
global avg ~1:05
Here are some splits
First four centers -11 seconds (working on planning 2 enters in inspection)
cross edges +last 2 enters 18-19 seconds
Edge paring 11-12 seconds
3x3- 17-22 seconds (Parity)
So what needs working on to get sub 1?

 

[Berkmann18]

ok more hoya help needed/
global avg ~1:05
Here are some splits
First four centers -11 seconds (working on planning 2 enters in inspection)
cross edges +last 2 centers 18-19 seconds
Edge paring 11-12 seconds
3x3- 17-22 seconds (Parity)
So what needs working on to get sub 1?

I'm not that fast yet but I believe that there's room for improvement on the cross dedges+L2Ce.
Have you tried to influence the L2Ce while pairing the last cross dedge ?
Are you sub10 on 3x3 ? if no you can improve the 3x3 stage too.

 

[Chree]

ok more hoya help needed/
global avg ~1:05
Here are some splits
First four centers -11 seconds (working on planning 2 enters in inspection)
cross edges +last 2 enters 18-19 seconds
Edge paring 11-12 seconds
3x3- 17-22 seconds (Parity)
So what needs working on to get sub 1?

General advice: It's looking like everything is improving pretty steadily. I like seeing those L8E times going down But Honestly? Just practice. Hoya isn't so different from any other method. Just doing lots of solves will bring your times down. I never look at my splits. But then again, I'm not even sub50 yet, so maybe I should.

More specific: Like Max said, your 3x3 stage is a little slow, especially considering the cross is already done (and looking at your WCA record). So if you wanna concentrate somewhere, I'd concentrate on that. Remember you can start looking ahead to F2L during L8E. And maybe just drill algs and build your Big Cube TPS.

 

[arquillian]

(sorry if I accidentally hit the wrong buttons, first post ever)
I switched to Hoya from Redux (after trying and failing to improve with Yau and switching back) on 4x4 long ago, brought my average down from 1:20 to ~1:00 in a couple of weeks, I avg ~50-52 now. I read the entire thread, discovered some new stuff (thanks Chree), should help me improve.
For 5x5, on the other hand, I switched for a while when my redux avg was ~1:35, got to 1:42ish averages with Hoya, then switched back because I felt L4E wasn't working out (for redux, I do L4E entirely in the E slice, don't bring anything to the U layer unless I see a really easy 3 cycle of edges, but that's very inefficient on Hoya). That said, now that I've gotten worse at redux (~1:39-1:40), primarily because my edge pairing has slowed down (I consistently get 27-28 centers), I'm thinking of switching back to Hoya because of the advantage in L8E lookahead. Look forward to seeing more useful stuff, thanks.

 

[~Adam~]

My judge asked if he could film my solve today. Managed to get a pb while thinking 'I hope I don't mess up' the entire solve.

I'm sorry about the quality. I can post the scramble in a couple of days time if anyone wants a shot at reconstructing (good luck).

 

[Hssandwich]

No problem at all. I will probably change it soon.

Haha! You did it!

Does anyone, when doing L2C+final cross dedge, do them simultaneously? I have found myself to be doing it quite a lot in recent solves, and it seems to shave a second off my times when I do it in a solve.

 

[mark49152]

My judge asked if he could film my solve today. Managed to get a pb while thinking 'I hope I don't mess up' the entire solve.

I'm sorry about the quality. I can post the scramble in a couple of days time if anyone wants a shot at reconstructing (good luck).

Nice solve. Was your judge using an HTC phone by any chance? Mine also tints the world mauve

 

[Ordway Persyn]

Here are my splits on a 1:52 5x5 solve I did (pretty average solve):

F4C: 28
Cross edges: 25
L2C: 6
L8E: 34
3x3: 19

Anything that needs Improving?

 

[CAL]

Here are my splits on a 1:52 5x5 solve I did (pretty average solve):

F4C: 28
Cross edges: 25
L2C: 6
L8E: 34
3x3: 19

Anything that needs Improving?

I think that is pretty standard...
I'm Averaging sub 1:30 and I have these Splits:
F4C:24(bad)
CE: 18
L2C: 4
L8E: 25-27
3x3: 15
Or so^^

 

[Chree]

Yeah, I agree with CAL. Those splits seem OK to me. Both y'all might wanna work on F4C (as should I)

EDIT: CAL... you're L2C... man.

 

[CAL]

Yeah, I agree with CAL. Those splits seem OK to me. Both y'all might wanna work on F4C (as should I)

EDIT: CAL... you're L2C... man.

Maybe they are a little bit slower... All splits are not 100% correct. Just watch often on the Timer, while solving

Edit: after watching some of my solves I can say 4 seconds :'D

 

[SpeedCuber71]

Got a PB average on 5x5 using Hoya earlier today. I average 1'30 and am stuck since a while. I don't know how to improve. My EP after cross edges is pretty great and i don't think it needs any improvement. Cross edges + centers is around 40-45. Should i improve it?

Generated By csTimer on 2016-1-20
avg of 5: 1:24.51

Time List:
1. (1:26.29) Fw R' Uw' Bw' Dw2 F' B D2 F' Uw F L2 R2 F' L' D Lw Fw Dw' B' Dw' F' U' Fw2 Rw R' F D2 L' U F' Fw' D Fw' F2 Lw Bw Dw2 Rw Lw2 Bw2 Rw L' Bw' R F2 Lw' L2 D Fw2 Bw' F Uw2 R' Uw Rw' Dw' Uw2 U L
2. 1:24.84 R Uw' Bw' Fw2 R' L2 Dw Uw B Lw' Fw2 F2 Rw2 L2 U F Bw' Uw B' F' Bw' D U' Lw2 U' Fw' U' Uw2 F2 B' Fw' Lw Uw2 R2 B' L2 Rw' Fw D' B2 Dw U' B2 R2 Rw2 B R' F' Lw' R Bw2 Dw Bw2 F L' U Lw L B' U'
3. (1:21.11) F Bw2 Lw Rw' Bw' B2 L2 Lw2 D Rw' R Uw2 Lw2 Dw F' B L B L R2 Uw U' Fw2 L Uw B Uw2 D2 L U Dw Rw U Bw B2 Uw2 L2 Dw' L Uw' U' Rw2 Fw' F2 Rw D' Rw' Uw' U B2 Dw U' R F' Fw' R Uw2 L2 R2 Bw'
4. 1:24.65 Uw' Lw2 Uw' D' Dw Bw2 Uw2 B Rw F2 L2 Bw Uw2 Fw U2 Lw' L' Dw Lw2 Rw' F' Bw2 B' Dw' L Uw' F' D' Fw' D2 Uw' Lw Fw Rw2 L D F Lw2 Dw' L' Lw2 Uw' R D R2 Dw F2 B R2 B R2 Dw2 F Bw Rw' U' Bw2 B' L Bw
5. 1:24.05 Fw2 Dw' L' Dw2 L Fw' Rw2 Dw Bw' Lw Dw Uw R' Uw Bw' L2 U' Lw D Fw Dw Rw2 D2 Fw2 Dw Bw' B Lw' B' Lw2 B2 U Uw' Rw Fw' R2 Uw2 F' Lw Rw' F' U' Lw Uw' L Lw' R' Bw2 R F2 Bw Uw U' Lw' Uw2 R Lw2 B Uw2 U'

 

[SpeedCuber71]

Hoya on 5x5, PB avg5.

Generated By csTimer on 2016-1-21
avg of 5: 1:22.74

Time List:
1. (1:20.49) U' D' Bw U B2 Fw' F2 Uw' R' D' B Rw' Bw Lw2 F2 Fw' Uw2 R2 U' R Lw Uw' Dw U2 F Bw Rw' U' F' Dw F' Dw R2 F' Dw R D' F2 Fw' B Uw Dw R2 D2 Rw Bw U2 F' Lw R' D' L Fw' R2 Dw2 Bw2 D2 R' Uw2 R'
2. 1:23.38 U' Uw' Dw' D2 L D2 Bw2 Lw' D' U2 Lw2 R' B2 R2 F Bw Lw' F Fw Rw Bw Fw2 F' L' R2 Fw U D' Rw' Bw' B R' L B2 Fw2 Rw' B' U' Rw L B D2 Rw2 U' R Uw2 R' Dw D' Rw2 D Rw2 Uw R' L2 Bw' D Dw2 Rw2 Fw'
3. (1:50.46) Dw' Bw2 Uw' Dw' R2 Bw U2 L Lw2 Fw L' Lw' R' B' D Fw L' R2 Bw U2 Lw' U2 L' R Lw' D Dw F D2 L' F U Dw' Lw D2 R L' Lw2 U2 F Dw2 R' L2 Bw2 Fw2 U' Rw' U' F2 Dw' D F Dw' B' Fw Lw L Dw Uw U'
4. 1:21.83 L Dw' Lw' Fw2 R Lw Bw' Uw2 Lw L2 U' Rw' U F2 Dw2 B F' D' L2 Uw' L Fw F' R Fw Rw' Lw' U2 Dw' Lw2 U' B U' Uw B F' D B L F' U' Fw' L2 R Rw2 Fw' Lw' Uw U2 B Fw Bw2 Lw2 F2 Bw Uw2 B' R' Uw Bw'
5. 1:23.01 L2 Uw' Dw2 D' R Dw Lw' Dw2 Rw2 B2 Dw' Bw2 U F Lw2 L2 Uw D2 F2 Fw' Bw' Rw2 Uw2 U' F U F2 Dw Rw2 Fw' Uw' R Rw' Uw2 U' R2 Bw' Lw2 Rw L D Fw' Uw2 Dw Bw2 B' U L Uw D2 U B2 Bw' Dw' L' D' U2 Rw' Lw2 L'

 

[asacuber]

4x4

Generated By csTimer on 2016-1-31
avg of 5: 1:25.57

Time List:
1. 1:22.06 R' D2 L R B Uw' Fw U' R' Rw2 Fw2 B2 Rw2 L U F' Uw2 U2 R' L2 Uw2 Fw' R2 L' U' Uw B' D2 B' R2 F2 Uw Rw' L2 R2 Fw2 R' Fw2 Rw2 Fw2
2. 1:29.29 Fw U2 Rw2 B R2 Fw' L B2 U' Fw' B2 L B U Rw' D U' B2 R F' D' R2 F' Fw' D' U2 Rw' Uw' Rw2 D2 Fw2 R Uw' Rw Fw' U2 F2 Rw2 Uw2 Fw2
3. (1:29.67) Fw L D' Fw Uw U2 R' L F' D2 L2 B2 Fw' D' Fw' Rw2 Uw' R Uw' Rw2 B L R2 U' F U2 R L' Rw' Fw F' L2 U2 R' Fw B U R2 F2 U
4. (1:17.07) U Rw2 D B' D U Uw2 B' R' U R B2 Fw2 R L2 F2 D' Uw F' Uw2 B Uw2 Rw U Rw B' Rw B F2 L Fw' Rw2 F2 U' F' L Fw2 U' B L'
5. 1:25.36 D' F Uw Rw' F D2 Fw' L2 F2 Uw Rw' Fw2 Uw2 Rw' Uw R' L2 B' Uw2 Rw' L2 Uw2 Fw2 U' Uw' B2 F' Uw2 D B2 Fw' D U2 Fw' Rw2 F U R' D' Rw'

I love this method. Way better than yau IMO.

 

[One Wheel]

I can typically average around 2:45-3:00 on 4x4 with Yau, and there is a competition in a month that I would like to compete at that has a 1:30 cutoff for 4x4. Should I:
a) Give up
b) Work on Yau
c) Learn Hoya

 

[Ordway Persyn]

I can typically average around 2:45-3:00 on 4x4 with Yau, and there is a competition in a month that I would like to compete at that has a 1:30 cutoff for 4x4. Should I:
a) Give up
b) Work on Yau
c) Learn Hoya

Probably just work on Yau. Hoya and Yau are pretty equal in speed. though I'd suggest you eventually try Hoya out.