[Help Thread] Hoya Discussion

[Berkmann18]

Definitely. Also, if you have a lot of pre-made center-bars in hoya, it is easier to track the same piece type than trying to preserve a cross edge in Yau.

I don't think I will switch fully to hoya, at least not at this stage. I just feel like I am too far down the road with Yau, but I will ceretainly keep hoya as a strong reserve for lucky scrambles.

Yeah.
Okay

 

[Ninja Storm]

I switched from Hoya back to Yau because of the movecount of edges being incredibly high compared to Yau.

 

[Robert-Y]

What I hate is when you have pieces "trapped" in the back or on D when the cross is already partially built. For me, it's annoying to free these pieces. I guess this is the one thing that puts me off. Maybe this is partly the reason why there hasn't been much success on 6x6x6 or 7x7x7?

 

[Hssandwich]

What I hate is when you have pieces "trapped" in the back or on D when the cross is already partially built. For me, it's annoying to free these pieces. I guess this is the one thing that puts me off. Maybe this is partly the reason why there hasn't been much success on 6x6x6 or 7x7x7?

You can just do a B2? I never do random cross pieces, I always do the whole cross quedge before moving on so this doesn't happen.

 

[Robert-Y]

I switched from Hoya back to Yau because of the movecount of edges being incredibly high compared to Yau.

What if I told you that Hoya's pbs are roughly 22/27/28 for single/ao5/ao12? Honestly I don't know if the movecount matters that much...

You can just do a B2? I never do random cross pieces, I always do the whole cross quedge before moving on so this doesn't happen.

Yeah I should stick with this instead of occasionally partially solving an edge group. Still, pieces get trapped in BL or BR and it's sorta annoying to free them/solve them. Sometimes I would do stuff like Rw2 U R U' Rw2' to solve an edge. It's kinda long though but I don't think Hoya or I could find anything better than that.

 

[Berkmann18]

What if I told you that Hoya's pbs are roughly 22/27/28 for single/ao5/ao12? Honestly I don't know if the movecount matters that much...

For some people it apparently matters, I don't get why would choose a method just for it's lower move count which I'm sure is quite negligible.

 

[Chree]

What I hate is when you have pieces "trapped" in the back or on D when the cross is already partially built. For me, it's annoying to free these pieces. I guess this is the one thing that puts me off. Maybe this is partly the reason why there hasn't been much success on 6x6x6 or 7x7x7?

You sort learn to avoid this. Not 100% of the time, but y'know. So, if you ever have anything "trapped" on D, it helps to find a piece that's supposed to be in its place, and use that to kick out the "trapped" piece while simultaneously solving something. So yeah... B moves. B2. R B R'. L B' L'. Whatevs.

I'm sticking with Hoya on 6x6. I went back and forth with Redux, but my Hoya times pulled ahead a little while ago. I also just beat my 7x7 PB single twice last night using Hoya. 4:39.93 -> 4:39.35 -> 4:38.84... nothing earth shattering. It also could be my centers are getting faster thanks to the cubic Aofu :-D

What if I told you that Hoya's pbs are roughly 22/27/28 for single/ao5/ao12? Honestly I don't know if the movecount matters that much...

Yeah I should stick with this instead of occasionally partially solving an edge group. Still, pieces get trapped in BL or BR and it's sorta annoying to free them/solve them. Sometimes I would do stuff like Rw2 U R U' Rw2' to solve an edge. It's kinda long though but I don't think Hoya or I could find anything better than that.

The move counts for any individual Edge group can suck, but I don't commit to solving any one Edge at a time. I try to take advantage of the easy-to-solve pieces.... and while solving those I'm influencing the less-easy-to-solve pieces into better cases along the way. A lot of times that means "partially solving".

I don't feel like I'm losing a lot of time when I switch from one edge to another and back again. Especially if it kicks out any trapped pieces from B or D that I might've needed to finish the previous edge.

 

[Ninja Storm]

What if I told you that Hoya's pbs are roughly 22/27/28 for single/ao5/ao12? Honestly I don't know if the movecount matters that much...

Huh, I didn't know that. At this point I don't even know which method I should use. I can't to get sub40 with anything.

 

[Berd]

I can't to get sub40 with anything.

I think you a word.

 

[OLLiver]

Ok peeps I need some tips.
I avg ~1:15 with hoya, here are my breakdowns
first 4 centres, 13-15 seconds.
Cross 15 seconds.
Edge pairing (6-2), 18-23 Seconds
3x3- 18-25 depending upon parity.
So what do I need to improve on and what splits are necessary for sub 1?

 

[Chree]

Ok peeps I need some tips.
I avg ~1:15 with hoya, here are my breakdowns
first 4 centres, 13-15 seconds.
Cross 15 seconds.
Edge pairing (6-2), 18-23 Seconds
3x3- 18-25 depending upon parity.
So what do I need to improve on and what splits are necessary for sub 1?

I've noticed your posts in the accomplishment thread, you've been progressing really quickly! Just about everything can and will see lots of improvement. But L8E seems weakest.

3-2-3 edge pairing is pretty sweet and 100% compatible with Hoya. cyoubx has a great video about it. Jacob Hutnyk also sneaks in some L8E talk in some of his videos, both on his channel and on cubingworld. That should get you started.

 

[shadowslice e]

Atm I don't exactly do 3-2-3 edge pairing. I just do an extra edge with cross and save in BR or BL. Is this any good? Also, my splits are;

F4C: 10-15
Cross+1: 20-22
L2C: 2-5
L7E: 15-20
3x3x3: 25 (Lol I don't really CFOP)

Any tips for what I should work on? (Pls don't laugh I'm a Hoya noob- day 5 today)

Thanks

 

[mark49152]

Atm I don't exactly do 3-2-3 edge pairing. I just do an extra edge with cross and save in BR or BL. Is this any good?

I do that with Hoya on 5x5 and up, but in my opinion, it's not helpful on 4x4 because 3-2-3 is so quick and efficient.

 

[shadowslice e]

I do that with Hoya on 5x5 and up, but in my opinion, it's not helpful on 4x4 because 3-2-3 is so quick and efficient.

I suppose that's true but I do personally prefer 3-3 edge pairing over 3-2-3 but I guess that just shows I have to pracise more.

I would advise against it. Cross edges are not particularly efficient with Hoya. You are building them to make L8E easier and to skip to F2L.

You don't want to spend any longer than you have to making edges in that manner.

About 2-3 extra second on one more edge vs about 5 more in edge pairing for me ATM. I suppose the gap will decrease or even get negative if I actually do 3-2-3 properly.

 

[~Adam~]

Atm I don't exactly do 3-2-3 edge pairing. I just do an extra edge with cross and save in BR or BL. Is this any good?

I would advise against it. Cross edges are not particularly efficient with Hoya. You are building them to make L8E easier and to skip to F2L.

You don't want to spend any longer than you have to making edges in that manner.

 

[mark49152]

I would advise against it. Cross edges are not particularly efficient with Hoya. You are building them to make L8E easier and to skip to F2L.

You don't want to spend any longer than you have to making edges in that manner.

Has anyone tried building only three cross edges Hoya style? Then align the open edge at DB and no need to waste 4 moves hiding DB to fix L2C. DB is in sight so it shouldn't hurt look ahead for other edges either.

 

[~Adam~]

Has anyone tried building only three cross edges Hoya style? Then align the open edge at DB and no need to waste 4 moves hiding DB to fix L2C. DB is in sight so it shouldn't hurt look ahead for other edges either.

I assume you didn't make a mistake when you put DB. So you do a B then a R or L?

I just do an F to move DF out of the way and rarely have to do an L as well since I use a lot of slice moves during L2C.

 

[mark49152]

I assume you didn't make a mistake when you put DB. So you do a B then a R or L?

I just do an F to move DF out of the way and rarely have to do an L as well since I use a lot of slice moves during L2C.

I meant DF. Sorry, brain is not in gear today. I use Rw, Lw, U and F for L2C so do F' R' to protect DF. As well as those 4 (or 2) moves there's the inefficiency you mention above of building that 4th cross edge Hoya style. I'm thinking more about 5x5+ than 4x4.

 

[Chree]

I meant DF. Sorry, brain is not in gear today. I use Rw, Lw, U and F for L2C so do F' R' to protect DF. As well as those 4 (or 2) moves there's the inefficiency you mention above of building that 4th cross edge Hoya style. I'm thinking more about 5x5+ than 4x4.

Can you clarify what you do after L2C in your example? Maybe I'm missing something basic, but it feels like solving that last cross tredge with freeslice and then finishing Cross wouldn't be any easier. At least not without solving the cross "wrong", like "Yau Last Cross Piece Style". And my Hoya tredges are pretty efficient, so I'm not seeing a disadvantage there.

Adam makes a good point. You don't always have to do the 2nd setup move... and F's really don't get in the way of Freeslice lookahead all that much.

I never minded doing the first 2 setup moves (F L), because I can use that moment to see what I'm working with on L2C. It's the next 2 setup moves that I hate (L' F'). They feel like a waste, and sometimes it messes with lookahead into L8E. I frequently have trouble seeing where to start on 5x5 and up. But it's only 2 moves, so I never really bothered to think of a Method to get around it. Instead I've just tried to train my lookahead... not to track the pieces that are moved during (L' F'), but to already know where they're going to wind up. Still, that's something I've only started relatively recently, so it doesn't always work. I'm interested in other approaches to fixing this whole mess.

 

[~Adam~]

Adam makes a good point. You don't always have to do the 2nd setup move... and F's really don't get in the way of Freeslice lookahead all that much.

1st off I think it's funny that people started using my actual name on here. I might change my username to something sensible like Adam.

Also when Hoya came over for a comp in the summer I asked him to show me some example solves and he seemed to be able to see immediately when he didn't need to do the 2nd setup move ON 5x5! That was really surprising to me.