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[Help Thread] Hoya Discussion

mark49152

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After a ton of practice yesterday I dropped my Hoya PBs to 2:02 ao12 and 1:42 single. This method is certainly a lot of fun!
 

mark49152

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Way to go Mark! It must have been something you have eaten that makes you do awesome progress! Keep it up and try to go official one of these days :)
Thanks for the encouragement. It's been the Hoya conversation on this thread that has got me motivated about 4x4 again.
 

KingTim96

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Would people appreciate it if I uploaded a video of like 2-3 hoya example solves? I kinda want to just to see if I'm doing it right but also to try and help others as well. Let me know if it'd be a good idea! Thanks
 

Chree

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Nice job Mark! And nice job Marcel!

I got snowed in this weekend and did about 250 4x4 solves on a stackmat. Got some new PB averages. I would have had a new PB single, but I thought I had PLL parity when I actually had an A Perm, so I wound up doing the alg twice. I hate it when I do that.
 

mark49152

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OK did a bit more homework on splits. I took about 16-17 sub-30 Yau solves from the reconstruction database and looked at their breakdown. Time breakdowns for redux, F3L and LL are already given, but not for the steps of redux. So I looked at the ETM move count for each and broke down the redux step accordingly. So there's an assumption in here that redux keeps a fairly consistent TPS throughout. Anyway, here are idealised splits, with the Hoya/Yau differing stuff lumped into one step:-

F2C

9.8%

Finish centers & cross

32.6%

Finish edges

23.4%

F3L

16.8%

LL

17.4%

 

Clarkeeyyy

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Okso I got a 51.40 official average today, I have a few solves on video (including a 48 single) thanks to the one and only CHJ :D. Ill upload and reconstruct when I get back. Unfortunately I couldn't get any of Jong-Ho's solves, but if anyone wants me to ask him any questions about cases and stuff, just let me know and I will ask him tomorrow.
 

Chree

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Did anyone else see this?

In the comments, Oscar says that he "solve [2] F2L slots before last cross piece"... he didn't specifically state that they were the BR and BL edges, but that's where he stores them.

I may try this.
 
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TDM

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Did anyone else see this?
[video]

In the comments, Oscar says that he "solve [2] F2L slots before last cross piece"... he didn't specifically state that they were the BR and BL edges, but that's where he stores them.

I may try this.[/video]
[video]
I said this before, but no one noticed:
I thought of a method for 5x5 (I thought that, like Yau, it would be too inefficient on 4x4) in which you start the same as with Hoya, except you don't solve the front cross edge. Instead, you solve the two back F2L edges. You then AUF to make sure the corresponding corner isn't in UFL/UFR, and do an F2 to bring the edge into the U layer, and then solve it into the back. You do that for both F2L slots. Then you solve the centres, and then continue with reduction
[/video]
 

uberCuber

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How would you preserve those back tredges during L2C?
How would you not?? :confused: What are you doing during L2C that would endanger the back F2L slots?

EDIT: Note that with his suggestion, you are not solving the front cross edge before L2C, so you do not have to move it out of the way (and thus possibly bring one of the back F2L pairs onto the U layer)
 
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Chree

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How would you not?? :confused: What are you doing during L2C that would endanger the back F2L slots?

EDIT: Note that with his suggestion, you are not solving the front cross edge before L2C, so you do not have to move it out of the way (and thus possibly bring one of the back F2L pairs onto the U layer)
I missed the part about NOT solving the last cross piece. That's where my brain fell apart.

Here's what I was imagining:
-Finished 3 cross tredges
-then the 2 Back F2L tredges hoya style, and solve them (real easy... it's always either D L / D' R' / L2 F L2 / or R2 F' R2)
-Finish last cross edge hoya style before L2C.

Then, by doing (F L) before starting L2C, the solved tredge that was in BL is in the U later. And depending on the L2C case, that puts it in danger.
I was asking if there was anything else that could help that.

So instead you'd just solve the last cross piece with normal reduction? Along with the rest of the tredges?
 

Lazy Einstein

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Hoya is amazing for the 4x4x4. I'll be buying 5-7 cubes in a few weeks. Interested to try it on the 5x5x5.

For the 4x4x4, I find the L4C and last cross edge of Yau uncomfortable compared to the cross edges and L2C of Hoya.

Also I see people saying that moving the last cross edge out of the way for the L2C of Hoya is confusing or feels like wasted moves. Well I argue that by saying you ALWAYS know those 2 moves are coming so it isn't a problem; that leaves super easy L2C then re insert cross edge and 323. I would say it is more efficient than Yau because when you finish L4C in Yau you don't necessarily know where the last cross edge pieces will be and you have to look more.

Finally with Hoya when you finish L2C the cross is skipped on the bottom and you can jump into 323. Yau cross is in your left hand so you have a cube rotation then first edge of 323. 2 move insert of Hoya last cross edge seems more efficient than the cube rotation of Yau.
 

TDM

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So instead you'd just solve the last cross piece with normal reduction? Along with the rest of the tredges?
Yep. I solve it before the other 8 tredges, so I can put it in place as soon as possible. This avoids using F moves to get edges I need to pair from DF, but I guess it could be solved at any stage and inserted with F2 or R' F R.
 
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