[Member Intro] Hello! (and my first 100 times)

[cubo]

Hey cubers!

Gave my 8 y.o. son a cube last Xmas, we learned together (beginner style straight off the rubiks.com site) and soon we both broke 2 mins. I was happy with that ... but my son kept going.

A few months later he beat 1 minute and I decided he deserved a better cube, got him a MoYu Aolong, which then got me interested again because it was seriously SO much better than the old cube.

So I started practicing more and also got a timer app. Thought I'd share my first 100 times ...

As you can see my average is about 1:40, PB is 1:01. (My son's PB is 52 secs

And now I'm kind of hooked. I don't know how far I'll take it, but for now ...

Goals for my next 100 times:

• Average under 1:30
  
• PB under 1 minute
  
• Better finger tricks

In terms of method I'm using cross + keyhole for F2L, basic OLL (FRUR'U'F'/FwRUR'U'Fw' then sune/anti-sune), 2-look PLL.

I know there are better methods (e.g. Fridrich F2L, more OLL algs etc) but as a busy dad I don't know if it's worth investing the time/memory in lots of alg memorisation.

I'm also very interested in the theory and maths so you might find me posting here and maybe contributing to the wiki if I think I can.

Anyway, hi!

 

[Loiloiloi]

Welcome to the forums

 

[JustinTimeCuber]

Welcome to SS! I think sub-60 and even sub-50 are achievable with the methods you use, but if you want to be sub-30 I'd learn full PLL and full 2-look OLL. Also, depending on where you live, it might be fun if you have time go to a competition with your son. You don't have to be particularly fast for it to be fun. At my first competition I made the second round with a 27 second average, but that is not common anymore (that was 3 and a half years ago ) If you are interested in the math/theory of the cube you should definitely look into the "Puzzle Theory" section. Another thing that might be fun when you have spare time is to get a Megaminx or a 4x4/5x5 and learn how to solve that. If you aren't interested in "slow" events like those or you don't have time to learn then Pyraminx and 2x2 (and Skewb) can be faster and more simple to learn. Good luck with your goals! I'm Justin, and I go on this forum a lot, and there are plenty of experienced cubers that go here that can be really helpful.

 

[PlainCuber]

Hey cubers!
Gave my 8 y.o. son a cube last Xmas, we learned together (beginner style straight off the rubiks.com site) and soon we both broke 2 mins. I was happy with that ... but my son kept going.
A few months later he beat 1 minute and I decided he deserved a better cube, got him a MoYu Aolong, which then got me interested again because it was seriously SO much better than the old cube.
So I started practicing more and also got a timer app. Thought I'd share my first 100 times ...
As you can see my average is about 1:40, PB is 1:01. (My son's PB is 52 secs
And now I'm kind of hooked. I don't know how far I'll take it, but for now ...
Goals for my next 100 times:

• Average under 1:30
  
• PB under 1 minute
  
• Better finger tricks

In terms of method I'm using cross + keyhole for F2L, basic OLL (FRUR'U'F'/FwRUR'U'Fw' then sune/anti-sune), 2-look PLL.
I know there are better methods (e.g. Fridrich F2L, more OLL algs etc) but as a busy dad I don't know if it's worth investing the time/memory in lots of alg memorisation.
I'm also very interested in the theory and maths so you might find me posting here and maybe contributing to the wiki if I think I can.
Anyway, hi!

Hey there. I'm an old timer (60) and I remember saying that my goal was to achieve an average of sub-1min. I now have accomplished that goal. Keep it up. You'll get faster. Just enjoy it. Watch videos. Memorize algs - that's important for getting faster, because I currently use 4LLL (2-look OLL and 2-look PLL), but I memorize 1 alg at a time. So good, so far.

 

[cubo]

Thanks JustinTimeCuber!

Yes I'm sure I can do sub-60 (since my PB is only 1 second away), fairly sure I can do sub-50 with lots more practice and a lucky break or two.

At this stage I don't really know how far I want to take it ... for now I'm just gunna do 100 more solves and see what I get

I think I definitely don't have the time (or hand dexterity) to become a 'true' speedcuber but I'm definitely interested to see how far I can go with my current style.

Great idea about taking my son to comps - his school actually had one and he came second (but he's in year 3 and the winner was in year 6). Problem is he doesn't want to really learn new techniques so I think he'll get stuck around the 45 sec mark. Anyway I'm not the kind of dad to make him do it, as long as he's enjoying and having fun ... He may even stop for a few years then later on pick it up again and take it to the next level. He's young and has plenty of good cubing years ahead of him

 

[cubo]

Oh and thanks PlainCuber, good advice!

Us oldies gotta pace ourselves

 

[newtonbase]

Hi @cubo. Welcome to the forums. There's an Older Cubers thread that's one of the most active here. Pop over and say hello.

 

[shadowslice e]

Welcome to the forums!

If you don't want too much memorisation you could always try a method other than CFOP such as Roux which has far fewer algorithms and is more efficient so you don't have to turn as fast while still getting the same times.

Anyway, I hope you and your son enjoy your time here!

 

[SenorJuan]

Speaking as a 1980's speedcuber, I know that sub-40 sec solves are possible with beginners methods, no fingertricks and poor cubes. So I would say that sub-40 should be achievable with what you have, and it's not unrealistic to aim for a lucky single below 30 secs.

 

[Solvador Cubi]

Welcome Cubo!

If you want to start progressing, I recommend learning a little at a time using DSEF and FIXLL.
(those are methods I put together when I was starting)

They are described at http://solvexio.cf/ and can get you moving toward CFOP by learning just a little at a time.

DSEF might be a little more efficient than Keyhole then you can combine that with the 4LLL of FIXLL which is a 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL, but really only learning 9 algorithms.
There are also quick reference layouts on there that show the entire method in one-page.

Ultimately though, learning and doing F2L with Corner-Edge pairings will speed things up quite a bit, but can slow you down at first while learning it.

 

[cubo]

Hi @cubo. Welcome to the forums. There's an Older Cubers thread that's one of the most active here. Pop over and say hello.

Will do! Thanks.

If you don't want too much memorisation you could always try a method other than CFOP such as Roux which has far fewer algorithms and is more efficient so you don't have to turn as fast while still getting the same times.

Anyway, I hope you and your son enjoy your time here!

Thanks! Have been reading about Roux, might give it a try.

Speaking as a 1980's speedcuber, I know that sub-40 sec solves are possible with beginners methods, no fingertricks and poor cubes. So I would say that sub-40 should be achievable with what you have, and it's not unrealistic to aim for a lucky single below 30 secs.

Oh wow that's encouraging, thanks!

In fact I can let you know ... I have broken 1 minute, woo!!!! I'm 30 solves into my next 100 and have a new PB of 53 secs! (and averaging about 1:20, which is 20 secs faster than my first 100.

It's definitely all about practice!

 

[cubo]

Welcome Cubo!

If you want to start progressing, I recommend learning a little at a time using DSEF and FIXLL.
(those are methods I put together when I was starting)

They are described at http://solvexio.cf/ and can get you moving toward CFOP by learning just a little at a time.

DSEF might be a little more efficient than Keyhole then you can combine that with the 4LLL of FIXLL which is a 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL, but really only learning 9 algorithms.
There are also quick reference layouts on there that show the entire method in one-page.

Ultimately though, learning and doing F2L with Corner-Edge pairings will speed things up quite a bit, but can slow you down at first while learning it.

Awesome I'll check your site out, thanks. Also - nice user name

 

[Solvador Cubi]

Thanks Cubo, I thought it was a clever username too.

Let me know if you use any Solvexio stuff, I'd like to hear as much feedback as I can get, then adjust them accordingly if needed.

 

[cubo]

Hi Solvador! I had a quick look at Solvexio.

I love your SH / EM stuff for the DSEF technique, although i personally find keyhole easier and faster: 3 edges + 4 corners via SH or EM, then last edge SHEM. This saves about 14 moves on your technique - but involves learning the keyhole concept. I'm now transitioning to proper F2L by doing the last slot only that way - this shaves another few moves off and is a good way for me to learn because having only one corner-edge to match in F2L is easier for me For the last layer I prefer OLL/PLL (each 2-look+ of course!) than doing PCLL, OLL, EPLL.

For your FIXLL method, I found the F2L method summary ... a bit "brief". "Match a corner edge pair then insert" is not quite enough, basd on my current investigation of that method. I am actually creating my own F2L one-pager summary which I'll be happy to share when I finish it. Your last layer for FIXLL is interesting but again, I find 4-look OLL/PLL simpler to follow - in particular visual assessment of the cube.

All the best!

cubo

 

[Solvador Cubi]

Thanks so much for the feedback, cubo!

I learned Keyhole F2L awhile back, but I just thought the D setups and restores would be kind of confusing for beginners. I also wanted to teach a LBL instead of the back and forth between solving edges, then corners then last edge.

How did you compute the saving of about 14 moves between Keyhole and SHEM?
For SHEM, I'm thinking corners would be about 25 moves then edges around 35.

You are right about my FIXLL method, it's for folks to bring their own F2L method and it's main thing is to show an optimized, low alg, 4LLL. It's steps are shown ordered in a CFCE way, but they can just as easily be in an OLL then PLL order (by swapping the PCLL and EOLL steps), since the 2 permutation steps don't affect the orientation.

Yes, full and proper F2L corner-edge pairing is the way to go. I've used it for about a year now, and it's pretty slick.
Here is a great beginner video explaining it:

Miller Cubing also has a series of videos for Advanced F2L.

 

[cubo]

Thanks so much for the feedback, cubo!

I learned Keyhole F2L awhile back, but I just thought the D setups and restores would be kind of confusing for beginners. I also wanted to teach a LBL instead of the back and forth between solving edges, then corners then last edge.

Totally know what you mean. Your 2 guides are aimed at Beginner and Intermediate/Advanced. I'm kind of some where in the middle of those

How did you compute the saving of about 14 moves between Keyhole and SHEM?
For SHEM, I'm thinking corners would be about 25 moves then edges around 35.

Good old napkin maths ...

For keyhole, first 3 edges + 4 corners take 1 move to set up, then 3 to place, so 7 x 4 = 28. Final edge is 8 moves insert, so that's 36 all up. Of course sometimes you'll get unlucky and an edge will need to be taken out of middle layer first, or corner out of bottom layer, or corner is in top layer but white is facing up, which means an extra 4-move cycle to correct those. So maybe adjust that to 40 ... BUT you can also get lucky with an edge or a corner already be sitting in place, and in general I find the unlucky/lucky situations tend to balance out (kinda like life ) so maybe 36 is closer after all. I had estimated SHEM at closer to 50 moves, assuming people would wise up that the last move isn't always needed. So 50-36=14 move difference.

You are right about my FIXLL method, it's for folks to bring their own F2L method and it's main thing is to show an optimized, low alg, 4LLL. It's steps are shown ordered in a CFCE way, but they can just as easily be in an OLL then PLL order (by swapping the PCLL and EOLL steps), since the 2 permutation steps don't affect the orientation.

Good point about swapping PCLL/EOLL, although I've got my 10 simple algs for 4-look LL, not sure on efficiency but at a glance looks pretty similar so not worth changing for me a this stage.

Yes, full and proper F2L corner-edge pairing is the way to go. I've used it for about a year now, and it's pretty slick.Here is a great beginner video explaining it:

Love that video! It's the one that helped me finally "get" F2L. And also a good google doc. It's this guide that I'm evolving into my own F2L guide that basically will boil this vid into into basics, as well as go into better info on splitting pairs and moving split pairs into top layer -- those are the bits that still trip me up.

 

[Solvador Cubi]

cubo, I'm glad that video helped. He's a friend of mine and we kind of learned the cube together until he was able to spend more time on it and zoomed by me! Here's the start to his advanced F2L series if that helps you too:

I would say your math is correct about Keyhole F2L, I don't think I ever calculated it and it really does have a decently low move count for a beginner method. I think someone could expect my entire DSEF method to be around 100 moves total.

 

[asacuber]

Welcome to the forums! Make yourself at home, there are cubers of all ages here
When you are just starting, it is easier to improve.

 

[cubo]

Thanks @asacuber

@Solvador Cubi Yes keyhole really is a great intermediate method I think. And by doing 3 edges, 3 corners, then last slot as F2L (much easier when there is only one pair to look for -- unlike full F2L, where the main time lag for me is looking around for those pairs at the beginning!) you can drop a few more moves on average, down to about 32 or so, which is really quite close to full F2L I'll definitely check out that Advanced F2L video, perhaps it will help with some of my F2L issues, thanks again!