Getting the second layer

[pyrotek7x7]

I use the old simple method for the second layer. (U' F' U F U R U' R' and the mirror) It works fine.

Recently, I saw a method that does the entire first layer, except for one corner. Then, it puts in the 2nd layer edges with that open corner, reducing the amount of moves by a substantial amount. However, I'm not sure if it is better, because it was much more simpler than F2L, and I'm wondering why not everybody does this. Is it harder to find what you are looking for or something?

 

[AvGalen]

This method is called keyhole or working corner and I learned it from deepcube.net (intermediate). I have a sub 28 seconds average with this and a 4 look last layer method.

Basically I would recommend starting with a real layer by layer method untill you are sub 60, then keyhole untill you are sub 35 and then full Fridrich for the first two layers.

The reason why not everybody does it is because A) It is not as easy to understand/learn/execute as a beginners layer by layer method and B) It is not as fast as full Fridrich because you only solve one piece at a time.

 

[pjk]

I'd recommend learning beginners Fridrich and get down sub-60 seconds, then switch to Fridrich F2L and go from there. It hasn't been a year since I have been cubing, and I can average sub-20 on the 3x3, around 1:30 on the 4x4, around 3:30 on the 5x5, and can do BLD around 5 min. Practice is the key.

 

[pyrotek7x7]

So, should I just keep doing what I usually do, or this keyhole method? At the rate I'm going, It'll surpass my current method.

 

[tenderchkn]

Keep in mind, keyhole is not that much more efficient than a classic beginners method. D R U R' D' is only two fewer mores than U' F' U F U R U' R', and the latter can be executed at equal speed anyway, especially if you learn how to do rotations. Plus, the last pair has to be completed the classic way anyway.

If F2L seems hard to you, just keep in mind that what you're doing in the beginners method is pulling the corner out, pairing it with the edge, then insert both at the same time. So, following the same principle, if you get a corner and its corresponding edge both on the top layer, you can easily pair them up and put them in.

 

[Johannes91]

Originally posted by tenderchkn@Feb 24 2007, 07:49 AM
D R U R' D' is only two fewer mores than U' F' U F U R U' R', and the latter can be executed at equal speed anyway, especially if you learn how to do rotations.

Well... You can use D R U R' etc., there's no need to restore the D-layer every time. So it's 3 moves shorter. And if corner is correct and edge flipped in its place, using working corner is significantly faster/shorter. I strongly suggest switching to working corner.

I find it hard to believe that it's possible to execute U' F' U F U R U' R' in 0.3-0.4 seconds, but I don't use that algorithm so maybe there's a finger trick I'm missing...

 

[pyrotek7x7]

Actually, I use F' U F and its mirror for the keyhole. :\ Supposing it is in the correct position. It can take 2 moves to set it up, and then 3 to do it.

 

[tenderchkn]

Originally posted by Johannes91+Feb 24 2007, 10:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Johannes91 @ Feb 24 2007, 10:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-tenderchkn@Feb 24 2007, 07:49 AM
D R U R' D' is only two fewer mores than U' F' U F U R U' R', and the latter can be executed at equal speed anyway, especially if you learn how to do rotations.

Well... You can use D R U R' etc., there's no need to restore the D-layer every time. So it's 3 moves shorter. And if corner is correct and edge flipped in its place, using working corner is significantly faster/shorter. I strongly suggest switching to working corner.

I find it hard to believe that it's possible to execute U' F' U F U R U' R' in 0.3-0.4 seconds, but I don't use that algorithm so maybe there's a finger trick I'm missing... [/b][/quote]
It's not the time, it's two triggers with a rotation in between, which is ~1 second. So being generous, three keyhole edges are 0.3 each, or 0.9 total, I find it hard to believe you don't waste close to 2.1 seconds wondering which edge is the last edge, where the keyhole is, etc.

 

[Arakron]

I think that a working corner method is far easier than a simple layer-by-layer. It requires -way- fewer algs - I'm sure there are many variants, but I approximately use the one here http://jeays.net/rubiks.htm (solution #2). I have essentially one alg memorized for it, which, with really insignificant alterations both permutes and orients the corners. The rest is completely intuitive (the last edges are faster intuitively than with his alg). I do cross, 3 corners, 3 mid-layer edges, orient last 5 edges, permute last 5 edges, permute corners, orient corners. It usually takes something around 75 moves, and my best time is 42s.

On the other hand, while it's great for beginners, I'm going to have to switch to something completely new pretty soon, as it doesn't lead into a good speedcubing method very well.

 

[AvGalen]

These were my times at the Belgian Open last weekend, using keyhole and a 4-look last layer. There were no skips during any of the solves:

Ranking: 26
Best: 23.66
Average: 26.79
Times: 26.59 27.77 (23.66) 26.00 (31.93)

Koen Heltzel told me he averaged 20.95 with keyhole and a 3 look last layer.

If anyone can beat that with a beginners (layer-by-layer) method I will be greatly impressed!

I first learned a beginners method (20 years ago), then switched to keyhole (10 months ago) because I thought it would reduce my times without having to learn many algorithms. I was right!

However if you want to go sub 20 you would eventually have to switch from keyhole to something more advanced like Fridrich F2L. The good news is that keyhole actually is a subset of this method so learning keyhole isn't wasting your time!

 

[pjk]

To be honest, when I first saw the Fridrich F2L, I thought it would be tough. However, after you work with it steadily for about a month, you realize how easy it really is. I would recommend you try it.

 

[Joël]

Originally posted by AvGalen@Feb 26 2007, 07:57 AM
Koen Heltzel told me he averaged 20.95 with keyhole and a 3 look last layer.

If anyone can beat that with a beginners (layer-by-layer) method I will be greatly impressed!

Hi Arnoud!

Does this impress you?

17.84 18.55 21.56 21.32 20.04 18.16 18.66 (16.43) (24.91) 22.95 16.95 22.56

Best 16.43
Worst 24.91
Average 19.86

Method: Layer by layer F2L, 3 look last layer (Orient edges, Orient Corners, Permute everything)

I used mostly F'RUR'U'R'FR and RU'R'FR'F'R for inserting the middle layer edges. I even 2 had cases with two edges in the middle layer swapped, so I had to insert a dummy edge to bring a middle layer edge in the U layer. The 24.91 was one of them...

 

[AvGalen]

Yes, that impresses me! :rolleyes: You proved a Point Ron once made: "You can average sub 20 with every method if you are good enough"

Could you do the same with working corner so we can make a comparison?

 

[KoenHeltzel]

Originally posted by AvGalen@Feb 26 2007, 07:57 AM
Koen Heltzel told me he averaged 20.95 with keyhole and a 3 look last layer.

This may not be very impressive (5 cube average btw).. but the weird thing is that it was in the final of the European Championship 2004, and at the time I was averaging 23 seconds.

The individual times were: 22.46 20.16 21.98 20.04 20.71

Still don't know how I did it, except that I stayed very calm and focused.

 

[pjk]

"You proved a Point Ron once made: "You can average sub 20 with every method if you are good enough"

I disagree, what about with a Bill M. BLD method of solving, but with your eyes open.... there is no way you could avg. sub-20.

 

[AvGalen]

I guess Ron would say that meant you were just not good enough B)

edited, say was see

 

[KJiptner]

Originally posted by PJK@Feb 27 2007, 11:39 PM
I disagree, what about with a Bill M. BLD method of solving, but with your eyes open.... there is no way you could avg. sub-20.

I was thinking the same. But I can totally agree on that practice is more important than the method. This japanese cuber Taka has a video on his homepage where he does a 12 seconds solve with 2step F2L. http://dosanko-cubist.hp.infoseek.co.jp/videos/speed.AVI He knows the whole solve and every move. Simply to test what he can do I suppose. I still was impressed.
I use full Fridrich and I'm barely sub-30. Simply because my F2L execution isn't very fluid. It's all about practice...