Geneva Open 2008

[Zava]

lol lucky lucky, but hey.. luck is not a crime
Scramble #2 of finals: F' U' F' R2 F2 R U2 R' U F U R2 U F' U2 F2 R' U R F' R U2 R2 U' F
Solution: x2 U R' U' R U R' U'

wow, that was just a first step of guimond on orange-red faces (if scrambled like U=white, F=green) without auf!
I'd do it like z' R U' R' U R U' R'.

 

[sheriff]

I am 4th in the finals (Manuel) and appear to be the 6th with a better average than 4th and 5th!

 

[Ron]

I am 4th in the finals (Manuel) and appear to be the 6th with a better average than 4th and 5th!

OK, corrected

 

[shelley]

It was difficult to scramble 2x2x2 in the final because everybody not in the final wanted to see the second scramble and try it?

???
Nobody besides scramblers should have access to the scrambles until the competition is over.

 

[TMOY]

I was scrambling too (in fact I spent half of the 2^3 finals scrambling and the other half judging); everybody was so excited about this scramble that it was really impossible to tell people to go away from the scrambling table...

 

[shelley]

Impossible? Where were the tournament officials? Did they see any of this going on? Only scramblers should be seeing the scrambles. They certainly shouldn't be made accessible to others while the round is in progress.

 

[pjk]

To anyone at the competition who competed in 2x2 finals:
Did any of you know that one of the scrambles was really easy before going to solve it? Was the word already going around about a 7 move scramble before most people solved that scramble?

 

[AvGalen]

It was difficult to scramble 2x2x2 in the final because everybody not in the final wanted to see the second scramble and try it?

???
Nobody besides scramblers should have access to the scrambles until the competition is over.

The competition or the event?
And where does it say this in the WCA-rules?

PJK: I didn't see Edouard solving any 2x2x2, but after he did his 1.3x time he raised his arms and attriacted attention to his WR. I didn't know which solve it was done on, which method or which color. All I knew was that Edouard did a really good solve. A while after that I was called to the stage for my solve. I immediately saw a 7 + 5 move layer by layer solution. A second later I saw the 7 move "inverse sexy move" solution, told the judge that it would be a much better solve than the first one because I really liked the scramble, smiled and did a 1.6x solve.
At that moment people noticed that one of the first scrambles was easy, but still no-one knew which scramble and how or why. One or two others did the second scramble, but didn't see the 7 move solution.
Then Erik got on the stage, solved the 2x2x2 in sub 1 and then everyone pretty much knew that the second scramble could be done very fast. However I don't think any of the other competitors (except Sherrif) profited from this knowledge. Sherrif was doing his solves later than most others and might have had more information. He did a 1.00 solve with a +2.

Also, both Edouar, Erik and me were convinced it was an 8 move solution for some reason. We still don't know why we all thought it was.

 

[Bryan]

It was difficult to scramble 2x2x2 in the final because everybody not in the final wanted to see the second scramble and try it?

???
Nobody besides scramblers should have access to the scrambles until the competition is over.

The competition or the event?

And where does it say this in the WCA-rules?

4b. Seriously, I would expect you'd be familiar with the rules.

 

[AvGalen]

It was difficult to scramble 2x2x2 in the final because everybody not in the final wanted to see the second scramble and try it?

???
Nobody besides scramblers should have access to the scrambles until the competition is over.

The competition or the event?

And where does it say this in the WCA-rules?

4b. Seriously, I would expect you'd be familiar with the rules.

I am familiar with the rules, that is why I asked. To be precise, 4b says:

Puzzles must be scrambled using a computer-generated random scramble sequence or scrambled position, that must be kept secret for all but the scramblers.

It doesn't say anywhere "until the competition is over" or "until the event is over".
In this competition a computer-generated random scramble sequence was used (not a scrambled position). 4b states that "that" must be kept secret for all but the scramblers. "that" refers to the "computer-generated random scramble sequence". As far as I know, nobody except the scramblers saw "that". I think what happened was that some spectators were shown the result of the scramble though which isn't really against the rules (I agree this is dodgy).

What should be important is "can it be proven that anyone had an unfair advantage" and as far as my personal solve was involved, the answer would be no.

 

[pjk]

It was difficult to scramble 2x2x2 in the final because everybody not in the final wanted to see the second scramble and try it?

???
Nobody besides scramblers should have access to the scrambles until the competition is over.

The competition or the event?
And where does it say this in the WCA-rules?

PJK: I didn't see Edouard solving any 2x2x2, but after he did his 1.3x time he raised his arms and attriacted attention to his WR. I didn't know which solve it was done on, which method or which color. All I knew was that Edouard did a really good solve. A while after that I was called to the stage for my solve. I immediately saw a 7 + 5 move layer by layer solution. A second later I saw the 7 move "inverse sexy move" solution, told the judge that it would be a much better solve than the first one because I really liked the scramble, smiled and did a 1.6x solve.
At that moment people noticed that one of the first scrambles was easy, but still no-one knew which scramble and how or why. One or two others did the second scramble, but didn't see the 7 move solution.
Then Erik got on the stage, solved the 2x2x2 in sub 1 and then everyone pretty much knew that the second scramble could be done very fast. However I don't think any of the other competitors (except Sherrif) profited from this knowledge. Sherrif was doing his solves later than most others and might have had more information. He did a 1.00 solve with a +2.

Also, both Edouar, Erik and me were convinced it was an 8 move solution for some reason. We still don't know why we all thought it was.

Ah, okay. That is what would be expected.

 

[Doudou]

To anyone at the competition who competed in 2x2 finals:
Did any of you know that one of the scrambles was really easy before going to solve it? Was the word already going around about a 7 move scramble before most people solved that scramble?

Everybody knew it, except me, because I was the first to solve. The order of solving decided who gets the WR. (i tried the scramble again after 2x2 finals in competition conditions, i did not remember the moves, just i knew i'll get a skip for sure, and got 0.88).

I think that was too weird to be validate by the WCA, and too unfair.

 

[TMOY]

Impossible? Where were the tournament officials? Did they see any of this going on? Only scramblers should be seeing the scrambles. They certainly shouldn't be made accessible to others while the round is in progress.

We were really late, the organisers were too busy trying to finish the competition in time to worry about such a minor problem. What matters is that none of the competitors has unduly seen them.

 

[AvGalen]

To anyone at the competition who competed in 2x2 finals:
Did any of you know that one of the scrambles was really easy before going to solve it? Was the word already going around about a 7 move scramble before most people solved that scramble?

...The order of solving decided who gets the WR. ..

No it didn't. The order was 1.3x, 1.6x, 0.9x, 1.00+2.

If you would order them by age (ignoring the +2) it works perfectly. I guess you and I are just to old Edouard

 

[jazzthief81]

I am familiar with the rules, that is why I asked. To be precise, 4b says:

Puzzles must be scrambled using a computer-generated random scramble sequence or scrambled position, that must be kept secret for all but the scramblers.

In this competition a computer-generated random scramble sequence was used (not a scrambled position). 4b states that "that" must be kept secret for all but the scramblers. "that" refers to the "computer-generated random scramble sequence". As far as I know, nobody except the scramblers saw "that". I think what happened was that some spectators were shown the result of the scramble though which isn't really against the rules (I agree this is dodgy).

Haha, seriously! That's blatantly taking the mickey with the rules. It's not because you used a computer generated scramble sequence to get to the scrambled position that the scrambled position shouldn't be kept secret. It would have been fine to show the scrambled position to the competitors, then?

From what I hear, people just got suspicious after the reactions from the spectators and other competitors from the same round. I don't think this is something you can avoid. The main thing is that no real information about the scramble was passed on.

 

[Doudou]

I am familiar with the rules, that is why I asked. To be precise, 4b says:

Puzzles must be scrambled using a computer-generated random scramble sequence or scrambled position, that must be kept secret for all but the scramblers.

In this competition a computer-generated random scramble sequence was used (not a scrambled position). 4b states that "that" must be kept secret for all but the scramblers. "that" refers to the "computer-generated random scramble sequence". As far as I know, nobody except the scramblers saw "that". I think what happened was that some spectators were shown the result of the scramble though which isn't really against the rules (I agree this is dodgy).

Haha, seriously! That's blatantly taking the mickey with the rules. It's not because you used a computer generated scramble sequence to get to the scrambled position that the scrambled position shouldn't be kept secret. It would have been fine to show the scrambled position to the competitors, then?

From what I hear, people just got suspicious after the reactions from the spectators and other competitors from the same round. I don't think this is something you can avoid. The main thing is that no real information about the scramble was passed on.

The fact that someone broke the WR before you go is more than a main thing on 2x2. If was 75% sure it was LL skip, but if someone would have had a 1.xx before, I would have forgotten the other 25%.

 

[jazzthief81]

The fact that someone broke the WR before you go is more than a main thing on 2x2. If was 75% sure it was LL skip, but if someone would have had a 1.xx before, I would have forgotten the other 25%.

... but you would have told the WCA it was unfair that you beat the WR and not have it validated, right?

Well than we should just completely abandon the 2x2x2 single WR since there is no fair way of beating it in the current conditions.

 

[DavidCalvo]

The main thing is that no real information about the scramble was passed on.

As far as I have been told (first hand information) at least one of the competitors already knew the SOLUTION of the solve before starting, and he was practicing and kidding about getting the WR and then getting the solve-time cancelled because of the cheat.

Difficult to take an overall decission, anyway.... Personally I'd cancel the whole event, since some rules seemed to be violated...

 

[jazzthief81]

The main thing is that no real information about the scramble was passed on.

As far as I have been told (first hand information) at least one of the competitors already knew the SOLUTION of the solve before starting, and he was practicing and kidding about getting the WR and then getting the solve-time cancelled because of the cheat.

Difficult to take an overall decission, anyway.... Personally I'd cancel the whole event, since some rules seemed to be violated...

Now, that's bad! For me that makes it totally not done to accept the results of this round and that would be unfair because Edouard deservedly got the average WR.

 

[DavidCalvo]

Of course Edouard deserves his WR average! I have no doubts on it.