Genetics / Natural Talent vs Hard Work / Practice

[Rubiks560]

There are a lot of factors that will determine how someone responds to any given treatment, so of course there isn't a one-size-fits-all approach. My example was extreme, but surely one suicide is one too many. This is why you should take care in how you define success. And of course, never tell people they can definitely "do anything" because it's bull crap. Instead you could say "with a lot of hard work you can excel at most things", or whatever.





Good to see you guys have come around to much more reasonable perspectives now. I take it that since we're having this debate, you agree that genetics do indeed play a role. Apparently I've made progress in this thread.

I said in my first post that I agree genetics play a role in this. But you're completely downplaying how significant of a role practice plays in this. That natural talent does literally nothing without that practice. Saying "oh you kids are just mad because bad and can't catch Feliks" is so ridiculous. I very much believe that if I had lots of time to completely devote to cubing I could one day be as fast as Feliks with lots of practice.

Genetics play a role. But no where near as significant as the practice.

 

[OLLiver]

I said in my first post that I agree genetics play a role in this. But you're completely downplaying how significant of a role practice plays in this. That natural talent does literally nothing without that practice. Saying "oh you kids are just mad because bad and can't catch Feliks" is so ridiculous. I very much believe that if I had lots of time to completely devote to cubing I could one day be as fast as Feliks with lots of practice.

Genetics play a role. But no where near as significant as the practice.

yes practice is 99% of it I daresay.

also happy new year to minnesota. I love minnesota. your weather looks amazing

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

the only effect genetics can have on speedcubing is work ethic and determination. other than that, I agree with some previous posts that cubing hasnt been aroung long enough for genetics to matter much. (although this will change when the current generation of speedcubers start having kids and teaching their 3 year olds 1LLL).

 

[shadowslice e]

the only effect genetics can have on speedcubing is work ethic and determination. other than that, I agree with some previous posts that cubing hasnt been aroung long enough for genetics to matter much.

Yeah this is pretty much my point of view but having said that having naturally faster twitch fingers cab help a bit though that can be trained

(although this will change when the current generation of speedcubers start having kids and teaching their 3 year olds 1LLL).

Lol 1LLL is for the weak. I'm teaching mine F3L.

But it would be interesting to see what the children of cubers would be like (cause I believe that this generation us still essentially the first with a wider amount of competitive cubers that use relatively developed methods such that there are essentially no easily discovered methods anymore). It would be interesting to see if good cubers have children who are good cubers (though this will not necessarily end the debate cause there's still the nature vs nurture).

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

Yeah this is pretty much my point of view but having said that having naturally faster twitch fingers cab help a bit though that can be trained



Lol 1LLL is for the weak. I'm teaching mine F3L.

But it would be interesting to see what the children of cubers would be like (cause I believe that this generation us still essentially the first with a wider amount of competitive cubers that use relatively developed methods such that there are essentially no easily discovered methods anymore). It would be interesting to see if good cubers have children who are good cubers (though this will not necessarily end the debate cause there's still the nature vs nurture).

probably both nature and nurture. since cubing is a fun hobby for us as kids, we will probably introduce it to our kids. also, some part their dna might include better coordination (speficially fingers), better pattern recognition, better problem solving skills, and better memory. of course, these can all be acquired in other ways but they wont be cubing specific.

inb4 redkb's son gets sub 3 single at age sub 3

 

[mark49152]

The only thing we can notice is people that hold WR/World Classe Performance like Chris Olson know that these performances are due to training more than natural talent.

And how do they know that?

 

[Dene]

I said in my first post that I agree genetics play a role in this. But you're completely downplaying how significant of a role practice plays in this. That natural talent does literally nothing without that practice. Saying "oh you kids are just mad because bad and can't catch Feliks" is so ridiculous. I very much believe that if I had lots of time to completely devote to cubing I could one day be as fast as Feliks with lots of practice.

Genetics play a role. But no where near as significant as the practice.

Na.

the only effect genetics can have on speedcubing is work ethic and determination.

The funny thing is, those are things that aren't particularly influenced by genetics. Then you go and make me lmao by saying things like

probably both nature and nurture

 

[JanW]

Good to see you guys have come around to much more reasonable perspectives now. I take it that since we're having this debate, you agree that genetics do indeed play a role. Apparently I've made progress in this thread.

Genetics probably have some role, because we are different, with different genes. But when it comes to an activity like cubing, the role of genetics would be close to non existent compared to the effect of practice. Small enough that you can ignore it when considering what makes someone into a great cuber. And most of the things that people view as innate talent are actually not that at all, it's skills picked up at a very young age. These play a far greater role than genetics.

I don't think we will see anyone born with a special ability for cubing until an autistic savant comes along with cube visualization and/or alg learning skills that are far beyond reach for other cubers.

 

[shadowslice e]

Good to see you guys have come around to much more reasonable perspectives now. I take it that since we're having this debate, you agree that genetics do indeed play a role. Apparently I've made progress in this thread.

Well, actually, no. Bar maybe 2 or 3 people everyone agreed from the start that genetics/natural talent plays an important role.

That only real argument is everyone trying to show you that you are really downplaying/ignoring the fact that practise/breaks or lack thereof definitely also play a role almost as significant, if not just as or perhaps even more significant than whatever natural talent an individual possesses.

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

Na.



The funny thing is, those are things that aren't particularly influenced by genetics. Then you go and make me lmao by saying things like

alright you know what im gonna say something you would probably say

you're only arguing that genetics plays a role because you're mad that you're not world class.

 

[mark49152]

And most of the things that people view as innate talent are actually not that at all, it's skills picked up at a very young age. These play a far greater role than genetics.

That can still be viewed as natural ability given that no reasonable amount of practice will compensate later if you did not develop those skills early enough.

I don't think we will see anyone born with a special ability for cubing until an autistic savant comes along with cube visualization and/or alg learning skills that are far beyond reach for other cubers.

How do you know that hasn't happened already? Barring perhaps an autism diagnosis.

 

[shadowslice e]

How do you know that hasn't happened already? Barring perhaps an autism diagnosis.

Not necessarily a direct response but it's always been an interesting idea that most if not all cubers would score pretty highly on autism tests (tendancy to obsess, visual/mathematical minded, highly competitive etc) or maybe ADHD (fidgets a lot, fiddling, sometimes twitchy etc).

 

[Isaac Lai]

Someone should just try what Laszlo Polgar did but with cubing.

 

[stoic]

Someone should just try what Laszlo Polgar did but with cubing.

Well...something with an evidence base would certainly be a welcome addition to much of the discussion in this thread.

 

[shadowslice e]

Someone should just try what Laszlo Polgar did but with cubing.

I'm sure half of the current generation of cubers already will...

But then they may have both nature and nurture on their side.

 

[Isaac Lai]

Well...something with an evidence base would certainly be a welcome addition to much of the discussion in this thread.

Come to think about it, what about Chan Hong Lik and Yu Da-Hyun? Since they got fast when they were young, I doubt that they would have considered that they wouldn't be able to get fast because of their genes. Is this not a perfect example?

 

[Torch]

Come to think about it, what about Chan Hong Lik and Yu Da-Hyun? Since they got fast when they were young, I doubt that they would have considered that they wouldn't be able to get fast because of their genes. Is this not a perfect example?

For a second I thought you were suggesting that they should have a child together.

 

[TMarshall]

I feel like the people who are very good at cubing (mattia, Chris) seem to put very little emphasis on natural talent, while the not so fast people just want an excuse for why they're not fast...

Serious thoughts:
If you're young, and you're in good mental and physical health, you can be world class at cubing.

 

[Reinier Schippers]

I feel like the people who are very good at cubing (mattia, Chris) seem to put very little emphasis on natural talent, while the not so fast people just want an excuse for why they're not fast...

Serious thoughts:
If you're young, and you're in good mental and physical health, you can be world class at cubing.

Maybe 4 years ago yes, not these years. I have been cubing for 6 years now. I have practised a lot, on average more than 1 hour a hour a day. I don't think I can get to Mats or Feliks levels. However it doesn't stop me from cubing. I think Mats has practised more than me because he started in 2007. But I have practised more in the 6 years than he did in the first 6 years and my progression was slower. While being completely not color blind, able to solve easily on white and yellow (not blue, and partly green). So I highly doubt I will be on world class level, which is top 10 in my mind

 

[adimare]

I feel like the people who are very good at cubing (mattia, Chris) seem to put very little emphasis on natural talent, while the not so fast people just want an excuse for why they're not fast...

I see the exact opposite. Many are basically saying "I'm just as talented as Feliks and Mats, they've just practised more than I have".

Serious thoughts:
If you're young, and you're in good mental and physical health, you can be world class at cubing.

Most cubers fit that description, and only a handful are world class.