F2L: (Rapid 2nd-Gen insertion w/ rotation) vs (F/B F2L styles)

[Jorghi]

Is it better to do rotations that allow quick 2nd gen insertion of F2L pairs, or to use F/B moves which are generally slower?

I feel like using the F/B moves would only benefit look ahead, which I don't really like to use and please don't flame me to use it.

Example:

Quick 2nd Gen -> y' (R' U' R)
(left handed?)Quick 2nd Gen -> y (L' U' L)
Slower F/B move -> F' U' F

Which do you guys use..?

 

[Vinny]

I would probably do L' U' L after rotating it. It'd be the same speed if I were to do the other, but it's what comes to mind for me first.

 

[Andrew Ricci]

1.) These are not "methods".

2.) What makes you say using L moves is "semi-quick"? Just because you're right handed doesn't mean left handed people can do [R,U] faster than [L,U].

3.) What makes you think most people don't use all three, or at least the first two?

 

[Jorghi]

1)I think it is a method "A particular procedure for accomplishing or approaching something, esp. a systematic or established one."
Using rotations to use 2nd Gen instead of doing F/B to fix the edge orientation.

2)ok

3)I'm asking which ones are faster, the first rotation applied ones or the F/B ones.

 

[Selkie]

Depended if I needed the rotation for next pair. I am getting more used to F insertions and they do not slow me down a whole lot but if I needed a rotation I'd pick the option that would improve the next case. You do not see many sub 9 Ao's that do not include F inserts.

Its one of the 4 VHF2L cases so if I had it last pair I would probably y first to EO, even though that would cost a rotation.

3.) What makes you think most people don't use all three, or at least the first two?

/Signed

Its situational.

 

[Hershey]

y L' U L:
avg5: 0.80

y' R' U R:
avg5: 0.73

F' U' F:
avg5: 0.51

I use F' U F because I don't need to rotate.

Slower F/B move -> F' U' F

I guess F' U' F isn't as slow as you think. Did you even time the triggers? Or did you just make stupid comments without checking?

 

[Andrew Ricci]

1)I think it is a method "A particular procedure for accomplishing or approaching something, esp. a systematic or established one."
Using rotations to use 2nd Gen instead of doing F/B to fix the edge orientation.

Yeah, but they all do the exact same thing and have the exact same result. It isn't like there is a difference between them, they're all just joining a pair the same way.

Edit: Also, doing F' U' F does NOT affect edge orientation.

 

[gundamslicer]

F' U' F

 

[tx789]

I would do right if on right and vise versa

 

[blah]

2nd gen

 

[Hershey]

I feel like using the F/B moves would only benefit look ahead, which I don't really like to use and please don't flame me to use it.

Using FU moves was pretty fast for me .

 

[wontolla]

As Selkie said, depending on where are the unsolved pairs. If a cube rotation will help to insert the next pair, then I use the first or second "methods".

 

[Dacuba]

Great thread here.
I, personally, do use a rotation and do left or right handed, but theres no difference for me. I often thought about doing F moves, but I've never really tried to change my F2L that way, cause I'm afraid it's slower and I get bad habbits about F moves.
Conny uses lotsa F moves in his sub9 Ao12 for example. Maybe it's all about practise and the F2L is really quickier with F moves....

But I doubt that B moves are that quick

 

[Selkie]

Edit: Also, doing F' U' F does NOT affect edge orientation.

Aye was a typo by me, I would y, to setup for a VHF2L Case to EO if last pair

 

[Jorghi]

But you should only use VHF2L if you don't know all the OLLS or you get an easy case.

And I think B moves would be fast for a left handed person.

F' U' F affects the edge orientation of the yellow edges(top edges).

 

[sa11297]

umm, it depends. If the back slots are empty then I would want to see them and a cube rotation would make sense. If the back slots are solved, then maybe I would use F moves. If the left slots are not solved then I would use the L moves. If this was the last pair then I would do R moves.

 

[Selkie]

But you should only use VHF2L if you don't know all the OLLS or you get an easy case.

Aye that is what I said, I only use VH for the 4 cases, I do not convert the other 37 cases to a VH case. I try to go into pair 4 without no unorientated edges to make for an easier case. I know full OLL I have a slow LL and a slow turn speed being a more mature cuber so anything to ease LL helps me a lot.

 

[Jorghi]

I think that's why F2l is the hardest step. Because there are so many algorithms(intuitive too) that you need to know in order to be ready for the next f2l too. Making it as efficient as 'humanly possible' lol lol.

I don't know what I'm saying now.

@Selkie - Lol I see you.

 

[Escher]

Trying to show that F' U' F is faster than y' R' U' R is faster on a stackmat only works if you ignore whether it disrupts the flow of the solve or not and whether it's inefficient for your fingers to regrip like that. Sometimes after some f2l cases your hands just aren't near enough to the F' U' F position to warrant using it, and it might be better to do a quick d'...

 

[Erzz]

F' U' F:
avg5: 0.51

Do you do it from the position where your thumbs are on F and fingers on B?
If so, what do you use to turn F'?