EOLine... What am I dong wrong?

freshcuber

freshcuber

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I'm learning ZZ for OH and I'm having trouble identifying orientation of edges for EOLine. I've watched bldmaster's videos atleast five times apiece now and this is what I've gathered.

1. If there is a sticker from the right or left side on the top or bottom it is a bad edge.
2. If there is a sticker from the top or bottom on the side of the U or D layer it is bad.
3. If there is a sticker from the top or bottom on the left or right faces of the cube that edge is bad.
4. If there is an edge in the M layer that does not fit rule 3 it is still a bad edge if it does not have a sticker that is either opposite or the same color as one of the centers it is adjacent to.


No matter how many scrambles I go through I don't get an even number of edges which bldmaster said is impossible and it's not my cube. What am I doing wrong?



Edit: Sorry about the misspelling in the title I'm working off my iPod.
 
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Try these rules, they are from Macky's site.

In U/D layer
# 1. If the piece has a U/D color, correct if this is on U/D, incorrect if on F/B/R/L.
# 2. Otherwise, correct if R/L color is on F/B/R/L, incorrect if on U/D.

In the middle layer
# 3. If the piece has a U/D color, correct if this is on F/B, incorrect if on R/L.
# 4. Otherwise, look at either one of the two stickers and the adjacent center. If these two colors are same or on opposite sides of the cube, correct. If not, incorrect.

BLDmaster has confusing rules.
 
EVH is correct, although my procedure would be slightly different. Rather than deciding in the following order:

Is white on top --> Is white on the side --> is R / L on the side --> is R / L on the top

I would go by the following order:

Is white on top --> Is R / L on top --> Is F / B on top --> is white on the side

That way, you can immediately scan for R / L pieces on top really quickly, and then only look on the sides of edges that actually require it. Not a big deal, and I might not even be making myself clear- you'll be fine with what EVH said if you want.
Also, just for reference, this is a good guide for EOLine and the rest of ZZ: http://cube.crider.co.uk/?p=eoline
 
First of all, solve your cube using Fridrich to make sure that it's solvable =D

I assume it is, though. The link I sent you has some examples IIRC, but if you want I can make one up myself.

Scramble with blue in front, yellow on top: B2 F2 U' B' D' U' L F' L2 D2 R' L B' L' D' U2 L2 B' L F2 B' R L2 U' D'

So immediately I see that the RU edge is misoriented because red is an R / L color, and it's showing up on top. I see the BU and LU edges both have yellow / white on top, so they're good. The FU edge has green on top, which is F / B. That means I have to look at the side of it and check to see if it's white. It is white, so it's not oriented correctly.

Misoriented edges so far: RU, FU

Now look at the D layer from the bottom. The FD edge has yellow facing up, which means that it's oriented. The LD and BD edges both have green showing up, so I have to check the sides of them. Since neither of them have white or yellow on the sides, they're both oriented. I also know that RD is misoriented right off the bat because orange is showing up on the bottom, and orange is an R / L color.

Misoriented edges so far: RU, FU, RD

Now look on the front and back. FR has yellow showing up, as does LB, so we don't have to do anything else with either of them- we know they're oriented. BR has blue showing up, so we check it's side. The side of it doesn't have yellow or white, so BR is good. That leaves FL, which has blue facing in front. Since blue is facing in front, we have to check the side of it to see if there's white or yellow. Since there's white on its side, it must be misoriented.

Final misoriented edges: RU FU RD FL

EOLine solution: D' R' F R' D F2

There you go, hope that helps! =D
 
I saw a really good video tutorial a while ago- I can't find it now, but it worked for me
if F/B edge is on F/B face, it's always correct, same if L/R edge is on L/R face (as in, matching or opposite colour)
if U/D edge is on any face, ignore, check the other side
Eg: if you had blue/green as U/D faces, and white as front face;
you have an edge on the front face with blue or green on it, check the other side of the edge, if that is red or orange, it's correct (you can rotate the front to match it to the correct center)
if it's white or yellow, it's incorrect, apply the same idea as above and it should be obvious

I don't know if this helped clear any confusion up- if it didn't, then have you tried just solving the cube? (to check that it's possible to solve)
 
ZincK_NOVA said:
I saw a really good video tutorial a while ago- I can't find it now, but it worked for me
if F/B edge is on F/B face, it's always correct, same if L/R edge is on L/R face (as in, matching or opposite colour)
if U/D edge is on any face, ignore, check the other side
Eg: if you had blue/green as U/D faces, and white as front face;
you have an edge on the front face with blue or green on it, check the other side of the edge, if that is red or orange, it's correct (you can rotate the front to match it to the correct center)
if it's white or yellow, it's incorrect, apply the same idea as above and it should be obvious

I don't know if this helped clear any confusion up- if it didn't, then have you tried just solving the cube? (to check that it's possible to solve)
Click to expand...

This is incorrect. It doesn't matter if an F/B edge is on the F/B face, it can still be misoriented. Even if you meant to say F/B color, it still wouldn't make sense, because if you perform F on a solved cube, you'll see that FR is on the F face, and an F sticker is facing you, but it's still misoriented because a U / D color is on the side.

Your example is also incorrect. If blue is your top face, and you have blue on the front, you don't need to do any more checking for that particular edge- it will always be correctly oriented.

...

I don't mean to be an ass, sorry D=
I just wanted to point out that this isn't quite right. You probably meant to say the right thing though- it's hard to explain this, especially in writing.
 
Thanks Anonymous that was my first ZZ solve to work and have oriented corners at OLL. I'll be sure to check out that link. I knew about it but in text none of it made sense at the time.
 
I have blue in front and yellow on top. My FL edge has red on the front and yellow on the side. Is this oriented?

Between the other edges I've identified as good and bad I have five so of this is a good edge I'll have to check it again.
 
really? well you might've saved me a load of effort- either that, or I used to use a slight variation- I'm gonna try a quick solve and see if this works
*fastforward*
okay, I've tried your checking, and I got odd numbers too- unless having U/D colours on L/R is bad
the only other thing I can think of is if your method creates the EOline on the D face right away, which might be causing the difference- if I remember correctly, the video I watched was for beginners and the method makes the line on the front face
either that, or I'm doing something wrong too- I'll just stick to CFOP
 
freshcuber said:
I have blue in front and yellow on top. My FL edge has red on the front and yellow on the side. Is this oriented?

Between the other edges I've identified as good and bad I have five so of this is a good edge I'll have to check it again.
Click to expand...

Its bad.
 
Cride's ZZ Tutorial said:
1. Look at the U/D faces. If you see:
* L/R colour (orange/red) it's bad.
* F/B colour (green/blue) means you need to look at the other side of the edge. If the side is U/D (white/yellow) it is bad.

2. Then look at the F/B faces of the E-slice (middle layer). The same rules apply. If you see:
* L/R colour (orange/red) it's bad.
* F/B colour (green/blue) means you need to look round the side of the edge. If the side is U/D (white/yellow) it is bad.
Click to expand...
If any of this doesn't make sense to you, ask me about it.
 
Thanks Truncator that's really helpful. With unlimited inspection I'm getting time around a minute. Once I learn the rules and get used to blockbuilding I'll do much better. Thanks to you as well EVH. I appreciate everyones help. If I have any more questions ill be sure to ask here.
 
freshcuber said:
Thanks Truncator that's really helpful. With unlimited inspection I'm getting time around a minute. Once I learn the rules and get used to blockbuilding I'll do much better. Thanks to you as well EVH. I appreciate everyones help. If I have any more questions ill be sure to ask here.
Click to expand...

Yay! Do you plan on learning COLL, or are you just going to do OCLL and PLL?
 
Zinck, if you're talking to me, then that might explain it- the rules I gave you were for making a line on D. Nevermind my post, then, although I'd like to point out that it's a bad idea to use orientation rules for line on D. It's like learning to make your cross on top, but even harder to make the transition to correct habits.

Also: Yay another ZZ user. Stick with it! EOLine will be the most frustrating part of your solve for a long time- even when you start to average near 25 seconds, you might find yourself screwing up EOLine every now and again, or even a lot- that's normal... or at least, it happened to me. Don't let that discourage you though- ZZ is awesome.

Another edit: I would suggest learning COLL. Even though people have pointed out, rightly so, that for extremely advanced cubers, EPLLs are either insignificantly or not at all faster than other PLLs, I've found that
1. EPLL's are more consistent
2. Have faster recognition
3. Just a tiny bit lower movecount.

Plus, EPLL's every time are fun. Do whatever seems most fun though. I'm just a stupid ZZ VH fanboy =D
 
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Another edit: I would suggest learning COLL. Even though people have pointed out, rightly so, that for extremely advanced cubers, EPLLs are either insignificantly or not at all faster than other PLLs, I've found that
1. EPLL's are more consistent
2. Have faster recognition
3. Just a tiny bit lower movecount.

Plus, EPLL's every time are fun. Do whatever seems most fun though. I'm just a stupid ZZ VH fanboy =D
Click to expand...

COLLs are very good for OH. ZZ is a very interesting method for that.
 
As of right now I haven't incorporated ZZ into my OH solves. I'm trying to get a decent success rate at EOline. How many algs is COLL? I had planned on just learning R U 2-gen PLLs and OCLLs.
 
40 algs but a lot of people don't actively use sune and antisune COLLs. Some can get lengthy and sunes and antisunes are faster. 2gen RU PLLs won't get you far because if you don't use COLL you will run into all 21 PLLs. OCLLs can be done 2gen but some of those aren't as fast as other ways to execute OCLLs. 2gen usually uses more moves.

If you commit to ZZ, learning COLL early is nice because it lets you get more experience recognizing COLL. Recog is a little different.
 
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