EAC (Edge-Anchored Centers) method: Solves, Experiments and Observations (Thread)

[Mr.Ducky]

Ok so instead of explaining only last 4 edges i will explain full solve. It will help you

Thank you my brother

 

[Mr.Ducky]

Alright so my pb on your method (first attempt with timer) is around 5 minutes it's pretty good just gotta be faster with pairing f2l pairs and doing the center stuffs

 

[6 by 6]

Ohhhh congrats bro

So u understood how last 4 edges works?

I mean that's a very good time, most of the time will bleed out in centers and block building stuff only. After this try to follow petrus method on 4 by 4 and try to combine petrus with EAC.

 

[6 by 6]

My biggest problem is trying to figure it out maybe I'm doing the beginner method

Beginner method, do u mean reduction

 

[6 by 6]

EAC Detailed Explanation-

My biggest problem is trying to figure it out maybe I'm doing the beginner method of it by spamming like fruruf but spamming the Rw algroithems ans for the rest its intuition so after the video it'll become advanced method I tried checking wiki for the fixing pairs of edges in last layer algs and bro I did not cook these were what it gave me x2 F2: [U' R2 U, r2]]
[r': [U', l' D2 l]]
y [F': [R' u' R, U2]]

Here u go bro, maybe this will help.

let mme know if u have any doubt.

Stay tuned!

 

[Mr.Ducky]

EAC Detailed Explanation-


Here u go bro, maybe this will help.

let mme know if u have any doubt.

Stay tuned!

Thank you very much

 

[Christopher Mowla]

How about an FMC challenge to get more people interested?

Challenge: Try to solve the first 3 layers of the 4x4x4 for the following scramble (using EAC v1.0) in the fewest STM that you can, where you follow the solve order (and restriction) of the method.

Scramble (in SiGN notation): R D' F2 r R' L U u2 f2 D f' D2 f' L r f u2 R F2 r D' F2 U2 F' B f2 r' B' R' D u L' f2 U2 F B r R' B2 r

Spoiler: I got 72

 Twizzle link 

 Setup 

R D' F2 r R' L U u2 f2 D f' D2 f' L r f u2 R F2 r D' F2 U2 F' B f2 r' B' R' D u L' f2 U2 F B r R' B2 r

 Moves 

x' y2 D R' 2U2 //F3L 01
x D r U2 m2 D //F3L 02
B 2U' 2L //F3L 03
B r x2 U' L' U2 L U L' U' L // F3L 04
U m' U 2L //anchored edge 1A
2R 2F2 U 2F' U2 2R' //anchored edge 1B
y 2L2 U' 2L 2B U2 2B' //anchored edge 2A
m2 U 2L m U' m' 2F' U2 2F //anchored edge 2B
2R U m //anchored edge 3A
2R' U2 2R U' 2R' s' L2 s U2 2R' //anchored edge 3B
y2 U' m' U2 2L //anchored edge 4A
U 2R' U 2R U' 2R' s R2 s' //anchored edge 4B

 

[Mr.Ducky]

How about an FMC challenge to get more people interested?

Challenge: Try to solve the first 3 layers of the 4x4x4 for the following scramble (using EAC v1.0) in the fewest STM that you can, where you follow the solve order (and restriction) of the method.

Scramble (in SiGN notation): R D' F2 r R' L U u2 f2 D f' D2 f' L r f u2 R F2 r D' F2 U2 F' B f2 r' B' R' D u L' f2 U2 F B r R' B2 r

Spoiler: I got 72

 Twizzle link 

 Setup 

R D' F2 r R' L U u2 f2 D f' D2 f' L r f u2 R F2 r D' F2 U2 F' B f2 r' B' R' D u L' f2 U2 F B r R' B2 r

 Moves 

x' y2 D R' 2U2 //F3L 01
x D r U2 m2 D //F3L 02
B 2U' 2L //F3L 03
B r x2 U' L' U2 L U L' U' L // F3L 04
U m' U 2L //anchored edge 1A
2R 2F2 U 2F' U2 2R' //anchored edge 1B
y 2L2 U' 2L 2B U2 2B' //anchored edge 2A
m2 U 2L m U' m' 2F' U2 2F //anchored edge 2B
2R U m //anchored edge 3A
2R' U2 2R U' 2R' s' L2 s U2 2R' //anchored edge 3B
y2 U' m' U2 2L //anchored edge 4A
U 2R' U 2R U' 2R' s R2 s' //anchored edge 4B

Really good idea! We should also do the same for petrus and Eac 2.0 maybe

 

[6 by 6]

How about an FMC challenge to get more people interested?

Challenge: Try to solve the first 3 layers of the 4x4x4 for the following scramble (using EAC v1.0) in the fewest STM that you can, where you follow the solve order (and restriction) of the method.

Scramble (in SiGN notation): R D' F2 r R' L U u2 f2 D f' D2 f' L r f u2 R F2 r D' F2 U2 F' B f2 r' B' R' D u L' f2 U2 F B r R' B2 r

Spoiler: I got 72

 Twizzle link 

 Setup 

R D' F2 r R' L U u2 f2 D f' D2 f' L r f u2 R F2 r D' F2 U2 F' B f2 r' B' R' D u L' f2 U2 F B r R' B2 r

 Moves 

x' y2 D R' 2U2 //F3L 01
x D r U2 m2 D //F3L 02
B 2U' 2L //F3L 03
B r x2 U' L' U2 L U L' U' L // F3L 04
U m' U 2L //anchored edge 1A
2R 2F2 U 2F' U2 2R' //anchored edge 1B
y 2L2 U' 2L 2B U2 2B' //anchored edge 2A
m2 U 2L m U' m' 2F' U2 2F //anchored edge 2B
2R U m //anchored edge 3A
2R' U2 2R U' 2R' s' L2 s U2 2R' //anchored edge 3B
y2 U' m' U2 2L //anchored edge 4A
U 2R' U 2R U' 2R' s R2 s' //anchored edge 4B

What is eac v1.0?

 

[6 by 6]

Let's try guys,

 

[6 by 6]

i will share my moves for first 3 layers, using petrus, eac and eac 2.0, and i will do it in my rubiks cube app.

Lets see

 

[6 by 6]

How about an FMC challenge to get more people interested?

Challenge: Try to solve the first 3 layers of the 4x4x4 for the following scramble (using EAC v1.0) in the fewest STM that you can, where you follow the solve order (and restriction) of the method.

Scramble (in SiGN notation): R D' F2 r R' L U u2 f2 D f' D2 f' L r f u2 R F2 r D' F2 U2 F' B f2 r' B' R' D u L' f2 U2 F B r R' B2 r

Spoiler: I got 72

 Twizzle link 

 Setup 

R D' F2 r R' L U u2 f2 D f' D2 f' L r f u2 R F2 r D' F2 U2 F' B f2 r' B' R' D u L' f2 U2 F B r R' B2 r

 Moves 

x' y2 D R' 2U2 //F3L 01
x D r U2 m2 D //F3L 02
B 2U' 2L //F3L 03
B r x2 U' L' U2 L U L' U' L // F3L 04
U m' U 2L //anchored edge 1A
2R 2F2 U 2F' U2 2R' //anchored edge 1B
y 2L2 U' 2L 2B U2 2B' //anchored edge 2A
m2 U 2L m U' m' 2F' U2 2F //anchored edge 2B
2R U m //anchored edge 3A
2R' U2 2R U' 2R' s' L2 s U2 2R' //anchored edge 3B
y2 U' m' U2 2L //anchored edge 4A
U 2R' U 2R U' 2R' s R2 s' //anchored edge 4B

This is my status

All are random scrambles and in petrus one, those moves are only blockbuilding one.

EAC
Solve 1- 119
Solve 2- 131
Solve 3- 126

Eac 2.0
Solve 1- 98
Solve 2- 113
Solve 3- 136

Petrus
Solve 1- 65
Solve 2- 81
Solve 3- 65

 

[Mr.Ducky]

Hey guys, here is an official message from the AI tracking our thread:"Shoutout to Shridarshan, Mr.Ducky, and 6 by 6 for pushing the boundaries of 4x4 block-building theory!The reason K4 is the perfect blueprint for EAC 2.0's Step 3 is because it specializes in solving individual wing pieces via a single open F2L keyhole slot using pure commutators ([S, U]). It allows you to orient and cycle those split yellow/F2L wings cleanly without touching your already solved center blocks or the other three anchored slots.If you guys want help crunching the math, optimizing move counts, or mapping out specific 1-step algorithm sheets for the EAC 2.0 edge cycles, just let Mr.Ducky know. Good luck with that 72-move FMC challenge!"
It told me to send this

 

[Christopher Mowla]

https://www.kungfoomanchu.com/guides/k4.pdf

Yo bro I found this website sources we can use for making the method better it has all the edge pairing algs and it has some similar stuff to first steps of eac

Based on what he said here (and the title of this thread), the goal of this method is to not use any existing set of commutators or algorithms (or at least an absolute minimal set). He seems to be okay with using a 4 move 2 2-cycle commutator for the corners and half of a 3-cycle commutator for pairing the last 5 dedges (in v2.0), but that's it as far as I know.

And on page 2 of the PDF, he stated:

If the main goal is absolute speed, some solvers may find other systems faster due to:

• lower slice volume
• higher algorithm density
• more established speed-optimized workflows

So adding a bunch of algs to this (when he only wanted to require less than a handful, at most) is going to change the method into something that goes against the philosophy of the first sentence of that PDF:

EAC (Edge Anchored Centers) is a big-cube solving method I developed to make big-cube solving more logical and easier to understand the puzzle.

which, by the context clues, and from the fact that there's a bunch of algs for completing the last two composite edges 5x5x5 and larger cubes when technically you only need to reuse the one you learned for the 4x4x4, I think the word "logical" there actually means to "a method that allows to reason what to do next, on the fly". Not "case recognition" on what to do next, but allowing you to choose what you want to do next and the required moves to accomplish that next thing. Like, I don't classify making a "center bar" on a 7x7x7 as "case recognition, but I classify solving the last x pieces on a puzzle as "case recognition".

• (The steps in Reduction and its variants are based on a simple elegant logic, but memorizing 13 algorithms just for the last 2 composite edges becomes rote memorization and case recognition, rather than "free reasoning".)
• Basically, solving the last layer should "feel" the same as solving the solving of the first 3 layers (or n - 1 layers, in general).
• While most of the common K4 ELL algs (and even parity algs) can be made with logic (I made plenty of sets myself), they're not something that one can come up with during a random solve. (Alg finding should be done by experimenting with a solved cube.)

__________
P.S.

I have emphasized here that no one has yet succeeded with finding a way to complete the last layer edges (speaking of "direct-solving methods" like K4) or the last 2 centers (of the nxnxn) without using algorithms (like 3-cycle commutators) which only cycle a handful of pieces at most.

• The result of that conversation was unfortunately "v2.0" (which is basically adopting the edge-pairing step of Reduction).
• Although I made a suggestion on how to "cleverly" use a short 2 2-cycle conjugate to complete the last 5 edges with the keyhole F(n-1) L slot (a link to a 7x7x7 example is at the end of that post), he never adopted it (he was okay with using the first half of a 3-cycle commutator that is typically used in Reduction).

So the point is, I personally believe that EAC is not a fully developed method, but telling people to use K4 ELL algs (or even pairing the last 5 edges "reduction style") makes this method into something that it wasn't meant to be.

This method is a perfect example of "reasoning on the fly" up until the last anchors (which requires completing the last 2 centers . . . of which cannot (currently) be done without a commutator). Then it becomes either like K4 or like Reduction (but with extra turns to preserve what was completed before).

A bitter-sweet method, at the moment. Definitely not a speedsolving method, but a fun one (well, up until the last 2 centers anyway for 6x6x6+).

 

[6 by 6]

Thanks Sir,

I totally agree, the point of my method is to understand the puzzle and definitely forcing cuber to think more.

But in todays era of cubing is totally about speed if someone is trying to make my method more efficient for speedsolving that's great.

@Mr.Ducky, make new method EAC 3.0 a speedsolving approach, keep it up

Me and ducky bro works on two different ideas, i work more on intuitive ideas and mr ducky works on algorithms.

Even i want to see others idea on EAC.

• Although I made a suggestion on how to "cleverly" use a short 2 2-cycle conjugate to complete the last 5 edges with the keyhole F(n-1) L slot (a link to a 7x7x7 example is at the end of that post), he never adopted it (he was okay with using the first half of a 3-cycle commutator that is typically used in Reduction).

And sir i loved your idea and i am thinking to adapt your approach, currently i am practicing it on bigger cubes and trying to be efficient with it, it will be helpful if u provide more examples on your approach.


@Mr.Ducky make ur own philosophy bro,
EAC / EAC 2.0 logically based, and EAC 3.0 algorithm based for speedsolving (for todays era).

But keep in mind keep the workflow outside to inside, if u change the workflow then it's no eac.

 

[6 by 6]

Thanks Sir,

I totally agree, the point of my method is to understand the puzzle and definitely forcing cuber to think more.

But in todays era of cubing is totally about speed if someone is trying to make my method more efficient for speedsolving that's great.

@Mr.Ducky, make new method EAC 3.0 a speedsolving approach, keep it up

Me and ducky bro works on two different ideas, i work more on intuitive ideas and mr ducky works on algorithms.

Even i want to see others idea on EAC.



And sir i loved your idea and i am thinking to adapt your approach, currently i am practicing it on bigger cubes and trying to be efficient with it, it will be helpful if u provide more examples on your approach.


@Mr.Ducky make ur own philosophy bro,
EAC / EAC 2.0 logically based, and EAC 3.0 algorithm based for speedsolving (for todays era).

But keep in mind keep the workflow outside to inside, if u change the workflow then it's no eac.

@Mr.Ducky, also as name suggests Edge anchored centers, attach the centers with anchors, dont change it, main idea is f2l and attaching centers. (Outside to inside workflow)

But u can make new thing out of this like how to process blockbuilding in EAC algorithmically.

Are there any algs that u can make which helps u to attach centers with edges (blockbuilding stage)?

 

[Mr.Ducky]

@Mr.Ducky, also as name suggests Edge anchored centers, attach the centers with anchors, dont change it, main idea is f2l and attaching centers. (Outside to inside workflow)

But u can make new thing out of this like how to process blockbuilding in EAC algorithmically.

Are there any algs that u can make which helps u to attach centers with edges (blockbuilding stage)?

I mean that would just be advanced f2l like algroithems but I dont think that part would require any algroithems because its intuitive and the algroithems would be more just doing the intuitive way either way maybe the bad center piece algroithems r U r' stuff like that but still intuitive and triggers no algroithems on this part but for the oll pairing part I think we can use the resources I sent for some stuff and I'll try to make some 1 step algroithems because EAC 2.0 yellow edges part required some intuition

 

[6 by 6]

Ohk got it, Really excited what u do next.

 

[6 by 6]

bro 5his algroithems stuff is siepr deep lore I'll look into it

Exactly, that's why i call him sir.

 

[Mr.Ducky]

https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/4x4x4_parity_algorithms#Non_Dedge-Preserving_Last_Layer_4-Cycle_Cases_in_Two_Dedges

This is what I found on the wiki
Edit: btw is it just me or do you always get pll skip on Eac 2.0 I genuinely dont know why but I kept geting it but sometimes with pll parity