Does the WCA DNF solves because of youtube videos?

[Discomantis]

So I got a good solve that was "official" because the judge didn't know how to judge and I didn't hear 8 seconds so I waited to make sure that if I got a bad time I could get an E1 and I accidentally over inspected by 5 seconds when doing that. If I post it on youtube, could it be turned into a DNF? (The judge never said 15 seconds had gone by.)

 

[An Animating Cuber]

You should probably contact the WCA Disciplinary committee and send them the video to get the problem resolved.

 

[Christopher Cabrera]

The WCA can disqualify results after a competition is over based on a YouTube video, especially if you were granted an unfair advantage over the rest of the competition. You should have addressed this problem with a delegate at the time in order to get an extra. Since the competition is already over the only thing they can do now is invalidate your result. Also, for future's note, quite a few delegates don't really like the whole "I'll call for an extra if my solve is bad" thing. If you think the judge invalidated you result you should tell them immediately for the sake of fairness.

 

[Discomantis]

Ok, I should have made this more clear in the initial post: I put my hands on the timer such that the green light was on after about 8 seconds had gone by and waited to see when they would call inspection time. They didn't so I waited for a bit until they called it and realized they wouldn't so I lifted my hands off the timer. Turns out I accidentally went over 15seconds except they didn't tell me. So I didn't get extra inspection time, I just got extra time after I put my hands on the timer.

 

[Christopher Cabrera]

That would still be considered extra inspection time. your inspection ends when the timer starts. Otherwise you be able to stare at the the cube infinitely with your hands on the timer.

 

[Tabe]

The WCA will review Youtube videos if asked. They don't go seeking out videos and you would have little risk of an issue by posting the video.

 

[joshsailscga]

This probably isn't a point of confusion but just in case it is based on your last comment: you don't need to wait for a cue to start your solve when you're done with inspection. You could start immediately if you wanted to.

 

[GenTheSnail]

The WCA will review Youtube videos if asked. They don't go seeking out videos and you would have little risk of an issue by posting the video.

However, many cubers tend to be sticklers for rules and if any of them happen across the video they may report it to the WCA -- I know I would consider it if I saw a video of a solve that clearly broke a regulation.

 

[OldSwiss]

You intentionally wait for the judge to make a mistake to take advantage of it?

Maybe that's Karma if you get a bad solve or a DNF because of that


Not all Judges have years of experience and mistakes can happen even to an experienced judge.
We should support them and help them getting better instead of trying to exploit this.

 

[xyzzy]

Your post is basically an admission that you were trying to get an unfair advantage, so regardless of whether you show the video to anyone, your result(s) should be retroactively DNFed.

 

[Christopher Cabrera]

You intentionally wait for the judge to make a mistake to take advantage of it?

Maybe that's Karma if you get a bad solve or a DNF because of that


Not all Judges have years of experience and mistakes can happen even to an experienced judge.
We should support them and help them getting better instead of trying to exploit this.

Your post is basically an admission that you were trying to get an unfair advantage, so regardless of whether you show the video to anyone, your result(s) should be retroactively DNFed.

It is not against the rules to wait for the judge to call 8 seconds or 12 seconds, since it is the responsibility of the judge to keep the stop watch running and callout the times. The only mistake was not asking for an extra right away. That way you get an extra solve that is legal and valid by the rules, and the delegate would likely explain to the judge so they can learn better for next time.

 

[xyzzy]

It is not against the rules to wait for the judge to call 8 seconds or 12 seconds, since it is the responsibility of the judge to keep the stop watch running and callout the times.

It is the responsibility of the judge to call out the times, but it's also the responsibility of the competitor to start the solve within 15 seconds. OP accidentally went over 15 seconds inspection because he thought he was being very smart and was trying to exploit a regulation loophole that does not in fact exist (*); if he'd just done the solve normally, he wouldn't have exceeded his inspection time limit.

If OP had a habit of waiting for the call-out to start, then that's fair, but according to the first post of this thread, that was not what happened. The second version of the story OP provided in a later post is from a very different perspective and is much less incriminating, which may or may not be an attempt to cover up guilt.

(*) The loophole exists insofar as you can do something like this and very likely not get caught (e.g. nobody would have known about this incident if OP didn't publicly admit it), but you're not supposed to do this. Nothing in the regulations permits you to do this. It's not difficult to cheat (unless you're a world-class cuber and have lots on eyeballs on you); we just trust people to not cheat.

Edit: Also, to be clear, the "unfair advantage" comes from the intention to take E1 only if the solve hadn't gone well.

 

[Christopher Cabrera]

It is the responsibility of the judge to call out the times, but it's also the responsibility of the competitor to start the solve within 15 seconds. OP accidentally went over 15 seconds inspection because he thought he was being very smart and was trying to exploit a regulation loophole that does not in fact exist (*); if he'd just done the solve normally, he wouldn't have exceeded his inspection time limit.

If OP had a habit of waiting for the call-out to start, then that's fair, but according to the first post of this thread, that was not what happened. The second version of the story OP provided in a later post is from a very different perspective and is much less incriminating, which may or may not be an attempt to cover up guilt.

(*) The loophole exists insofar as you can do something like this and very likely not get caught (e.g. nobody would have known about this incident if OP didn't publicly admit it), but you're not supposed to do this. Nothing in the regulations permits you to do this. It's not difficult to cheat (unless you're a world-class cuber and have lots on eyeballs on you); we just trust people to not cheat.

Edit: Also, to be clear, the "unfair advantage" comes from the intention to take E1 only if the solve hadn't gone well.

Delegates do have the right to deny an extra if they think you are trying to gain an unfair advantage from it. I agree that based on the wording of the first post it might have been malicious. However I usually don't like to assume the worst of people, so based on OP's 2nd post I assumed that waiting for the call might have been a habit of his.

The best practice is to stop your solve immediately (dnfing the attempt) in ordered to ask for an extra. However, I believed it was also possible that OP didn't realize he had actually gone over inspection until reviewing the footage.

I have a friend who is a delegate and when this kind of thing happens in his solves, where the judge doesn't make the callouts (particularly when his hands are on the timer), he will wait out the inspection time and ask the judge for the inspection time before starting his attempt. If the judge stopped the inspection timer early or missed a callout he would then call over a different delegate to confirm his extra. Perhaps this is a strategy that might help in the future.

 

[Sub1Hour]

So I got a good solve that was "official" because the judge didn't know how to judge and I didn't hear 8 seconds so I waited to make sure that if I got a bad time I could get an E1 and I accidentally over inspected by 5 seconds when doing that. If I post it on youtube, could it be turned into a DNF? (The judge never said 15 seconds had gone by.)

So basically you are admitting to trying to abuse an E1? If you know that you could get an E1, and purposefully cheated in order to get a better result, then are you saying that your "accidental" 20-second inspection shouldn't be DNF'd? I doubt that anything is actually going to happen, but you should really consider if you are upholding the WCA spirit of having "fair and equal conditions" for all competitions across the world. It's easy to take advantage of something like this, but it's disingenuous and unfair to everyone else to take advantage of a new judge, instead of teaching them the right way to do it and contacting a delegate.

 

[White KB]

So I got a good solve that was "official" because the judge didn't know how to judge and I didn't hear 8 seconds so I waited to make sure that if I got a bad time I could get an E1 and I accidentally over inspected by 5 seconds when doing that. If I post it on youtube, could it be turned into a DNF? (The judge never said 15 seconds had gone by.)

Yes, it can. It is kind of unfortunate though: The WCA is basically saying to those who submit damning video evidence, "Good job in helping ensure solving integrity! Here's a DNF based on what you submitted!" I do think that there are situations outlined in the WCA regulations where they account for video editing, no matter how unlikely, and I believe that should also be applied to situations like this so that they give competitors the benefit of the doubt in certain instances.
(I don't know what instances would result in this btw lol)

 

[Discomantis]

Ok, so a lot of people miss interpreted what I meant: I didn't realize I over inspected. What happened is I didn't hear 8 when I thought it should have been called, so I waited for a call and I didn't hear 12 for a while so I just started. I didn't think about the fact that I over inspected and since I got a good time I didn't think to look over the footage. (If I'm not wrong you don't have to get an E1 for inspection callouts missed as long as you don't over-inspect.) Thinking back, I should have looked over the footage. If anyone wants the footage, I'll post it when I get home. Also, don't send hate to the judge. It's my fault, not theirs.

 

[White KB]

Ok, so a lot of people miss interpreted what I meant: I didn't realize I over inspected. What happened is I didn't hear 8 when I thought it should have been called, so I waited for a call and I didn't hear 12 for a while so I just started. I didn't think about the fact that I over inspected and since I got a good time I didn't think to look over the footage. (If I'm not wrong you don't have to get an E1 for inspection callouts missed as long as you don't over-inspect.) Thinking back, I should have looked over the footage. If anyone wants the footage, I'll post it when I get home. Also, don't send hate to the judge. It's my fault, not theirs.

:Facebook care emoji:

 

[Thom S.]

Considering your last comp result has a DNF, I'm going to assume you did the right thing already and turned yourself in.

 

[Jorian Meeuse]

Considering your last comp result has a DNF, I'm going to assume you did the right thing already and turned yourself in.

Yes he is indeed in jail now

 

[Thom S.]

Yes he is indeed in jail now

Good. I am pleased.