Cross 3x3x3

[Harry]

Guys, especially Mr Pjk, do you guys really can solve the cross <8 turns, whatever I do, it is still more than that (<15 turns). I do all of what you giuys told me, memorize the place of the edges and then do the turns in your mind, etc etc etc etc...

However, I can't do it under 15 turns or 10 secs......

Do I need to practice or what?

 

[PCwizCube]

You probably insert each edge separately (one at a time) when you do the cross. People who average less than 8 moves every cross insert edge pieces more than one at a time. Yes it can be achieved by practice, but I've found great help from cross guides.

http://www.cubefreak.net/cross.html
http://www.cubestation.co.uk/cs2/index.php?page=3x3x3/cfop/cross/cross

If I were you, I wouldn't focus too much on the cross. My goal (at your level) would be too solve the cross in less than 15 seconds average. One turn per second is easy. Mastering the cross takes a lot of practice, and you can improve on your last layer and first two layers easily right now.

 

[bundat]

My basic mental formula is just to first fix edges that are flipped awkwardly, then position red opposite orange somewhere on the cube, and blue opposite green, and then stick them down there 2 at a time (not necessarily in that order, but that's the gist).

When I put the edges to the bottom, I do it so that red is in front orange on the back, blue and green on the sides, regardless of what the centers are, then I just do a final D/D'/D2 turn to align the cross to the centers (which I'm now trying to change to a u/u2/u' turn because the D turn sometimes confuses me when the first F2L corner I'm looking at while forming the cross is at the D face).

Just by doing that, just while practicing CFOP normally in a week, I managed to unconsciously get my cross time to sub-3, with my moves almost always being below 8 (although even with the rare 9-10 move cross, it still doesn't go above 3 seconds, so I don't mind).

Some recommend memorizing how to form the cross, then doing it blindfolded/with your eyes closed. I personally never did this training, but it wasn't hard when I tried. Just develop some system or your own personal way of managing the edges, like that thing with pairing up opposite colors.

 

[Crzyazn]

Know your color scheme well

When placing an edge in the D layer, you should already know which edges should go adjacent/opposite to it and place them so

 

[Harry]

You probably insert each edge separately (one at a time) when you do the cross. People who average less than 8 moves every cross insert edge pieces more than one at a time. Yes it can be achieved by practice, but I've found great help from cross guides.

http://www.cubefreak.net/cross.html
http://www.cubestation.co.uk/cs2/index.php?page=3x3x3/cfop/cross/cross

If I were you, I wouldn't focus too much on the cross. My goal (at your level) would be too solve the cross in less than 15 seconds average. One turn per second is easy. Mastering the cross takes a lot of practice, and you can improve on your last layer and first two layers easily right now.

Oh yeah, some people said that too.... I managed to do it under 15 secs..... Then?

My basic mental formula is just to first fix edges that are flipped awkwardly, then position red opposite orange somewhere on the cube, and blue opposite green, and then stick them down there 2 at a time (not necessarily in that order, but that's the gist).

When I put the edges to the bottom, I do it so that red is in front orange on the back, blue and green on the sides, regardless of what the centers are, then I just do a final D/D'/D2 turn to align the cross to the centers (which I'm now trying to change to a u/u2/u' turn because the D turn sometimes confuses me when the first F2L corner I'm looking at while forming the cross is at the D face).

Just by doing that, just while practicing CFOP normally in a week, I managed to unconsciously get my cross time to sub-3, with my moves almost always being below 8 (although even with the rare 9-10 move cross, it still doesn't go above 3 seconds, so I don't mind).

Some recommend memorizing how to form the cross, then doing it blindfolded/with your eyes closed. I personally never did this training, but it wasn't hard when I tried. Just develop some system or your own personal way of managing the edges, like that thing with pairing up opposite colors.

Hmmm, I think I understand but only in bold I don't......

9-10 moves in 3 secs?

 

[PCwizCube]

Okay, your next goal would be to consistently get the cross under 10 seconds. As I've said before, I wouldn't spend to much time on the cross, because you other steps can have HUGE improvements which will DRAMATICALLY drop your times, but your cross will only drop your time by like a maximum of what? 12 seconds if you get really fast?

9-10 moves in 3 seconds. 3 moves per second isn't really too fast, but this comes with a LOT of practice and a LOT of experience. Some people, like Yu Nakajima, does the cross in less than 2 seconds average....

 

[Crzyazn]

I disagree.

The cross is one of the more consistent steps that can easily shave off 1 or 2 seconds with practice.

 

[bundat]

9-10 moves in 3 secs?

3 turns per second is not really that fast. You need to see Yu Nakajima's sub-1 perms. I still can't understand how it's humanly possible to perform 10-15 moves in under 1 second.
Have you seen any speed cubing videos?

In my opinion though, the cross is very important to improve to be fast, actually, I think it's the 2nd most important CFOP step to improve for beginners (of course, the F2L is the most important). They don't need fast PLLs or the whole OLL yet, but a solid cross will make their times consistently fast enough. I've seen a lot of cubers spend 10-20 seconds at it, even if it's terribly easy to become fast at (compared to doing PLL time attacks or gaining F2L recognition and look-ahead, no cube rotations algs from all angles etc.). Improving the cross can even help already fast cubers (xcross).

What I meant earlier is, you can try to position the cross edges with respect to each other rather than align them to the centers. Like with white at the bottom, position the white/red piece in front, the white/orange piece on the back, white/blue on the left, and white/green on the right, and they'll form a cross. If it's not aligned, just keep doing D and it'll be fixed. Even if you do it one edge at a time like that, even without any finger tricks, as long as you have it all planned out during inspection, you shouldn't go over 5 seconds if you don't fumble and panic and have a decent cube.

 

[Xzilalnx2]

I solve less than 8 and I just started.

I solve less than 8 most of the time. I look at the cube and find the face I want to create a cross on.

then there are two patterns I try to look for:
:Edges that belong to top layer( layer I'm solving cross for ) that:
1:have the same color as the top layer facing the side the blong to
ex: red/white edge with white part showing on the red face
2:have the same color as the face they are on with the top face no facing you
ex: red/white edge with red part showing on red face.

case 2 is easy to solve by just rotating that face till the edge matches the top cross

case 1 is harder. Rotate the cross such that the part of it where the edge should go is facing the color of the non-white color part of the edge. Then solve the same way you solved case number 2. Then rotate cross back to original position QED.

 

[Harry]

I solve less than 8 most of the time. I look at the cube and find the face I want to create a cross on.

then there are two patterns I try to look for:
:Edges that belong to top layer( layer I'm solving cross for ) that:
1:have the same color as the top layer facing the side the blong to
ex: red/white edge with white part showing on the red face
2:have the same color as the face they are on with the top face no facing you
ex: red/white edge with red part showing on red face.

case 2 is easy to solve by just rotating that face till the edge matches the top cross

case 1 is harder. Rotate the cross such that the part of it where the edge should go is facing the color of the non-white color part of the edge. Then solve the same way you solved case number 2. Then rotate cross back to original position QED.

Oh yeah, I do that too but sometimes, it is not the case right.......

@Mr Bundat
I saw some if what you mean like people solving it sub 20 sec

 

[brunson]

I think it's the 2nd most important CFOP step to improve for beginners (of course, the F2L is the most important).

Since CF consists of Cross and F2L and F2L is the most important, isn't what you just said the same as, "it's the least important step"?

Sorry, just being a semantic pedant.

 

[bundat]

I think it's the 2nd most important CFOP step to improve for beginners (of course, the F2L is the most important).

Since CF consists of Cross and F2L and F2L is the most important, isn't what you just said the same as, "it's the least important step"?

Sorry, just being a semantic pedant.

Umm... where did the OP in CFOP go in that statement? :confused:
I said immediately after that that "They don't need fast PLLs or the whole OLL yet", so logically, I ranked it in importance as 1.F2L 2.cross 3.PLLs 4.all OLLs. I don't know how "2nd most important" ends up being "the least important" when there are 2 more steps.

 

[mrbiggs]

When I first started doing Freidrich, I had the same problem; I couldn't get under 8 moves unless I really spent a few minutes planning things out, and I generally got 10-15 turns.

Personally, I just practiced a ton. I can get under 8 with 90% of solves even without preinspection. It's just a matter of knowing little tricks--like whether it's faster for this particular cross to do U and then solve the cross, or to solve it and then do D'. Simple things like that can save you 3-4 moves easily.

Another good idea is to go through others' solves, of which there are a lot on this site. They often use tricks which you can then implement yourself.

 

[Harry]

Hmmm, ok then thanks guys