Creationism vs. evolution

[Sin-H]

How do you know it's a 4th dimensional being and not a 27.3-dimensional being?

Cause there are only 10 possible dimensions, the 10th being a dot containing all possible events, series, universes, etc.

That - and the video posted above your post - is so full of ******** I don't even know where to start if I want to criticize it.

Although there MIGHT be more dimensions than three of space and one of time, the existence of such dimensions has not been proven. You probably think there are more dimensions because of string theory and M-theory, which claim that there are 9 or 10 dimensions of space and one of time. However, string theory has run into many problems. It has not been tested in experiment, and to make matters worse there are something like 10^500 different string theories, most of which require calculations modern physicists simply can't do to even figure out if they resemble our universe. The fact is that most of the important conjectures of string theory remain unproven (even though many people believe them, including almost the entire theoretical physics community), and string theory itself has never been tested by experiment. It is arguably not even science.

By the way, the "flatland" analogy to thinking about a world with more than 3 spatial dimensions is sound, but remember that it means we cannot actually experience a fourth dimension. We cannot actually tell whether there are 4+ dimensions of space or not! Saying anything conclusive about a dimension that might not even exist makes you look very silly.


That was kinda off topic, so here's my opinion on evolution: do not rule it out if you are religious. Evolution has been proven to happen, at least at the microevolution scale (where different populations of an organism can develop different characteristics over thousands of generations, while still technically being the same species). If you are rational enough to understand that many parts of your holy book were not intended to be taken 100% literally, you should be able to imagine how a deity could set evolution in place in order to save himself a ton of work, while still allowing him some control over the final 'product'.

totally word!
but: it is sad, but true that string theory and loop quantum gravity are, though impossible to be proven at the moment, the only quantum gravity stuff theoretical physicists have right now. We are in a big crisis
for example, theoretical physicists exaggerate the density of energy of the dark materia by the factor 10^123

and, btw: you know, we can build our own universe and be God there we just have to find a way to press 10^91 kgs of mass into a volume which is about as big as a cube of sugar and inflation will take its course

b2t: I am European, so I kinda believe in Evolution rather than Creation. oh well, I believe in some kind of creation, but not in the 6-day-work-1-day-off-stuff. but I do believe in a godlike individuum or energy.
and I don't think that the bible should be taken literally either.

 

[Lofty]

Thanks those links are more what I was looking for. I was just trying to avoid statements that sound nice but really have no meaning or backing. Like broad statements about evolution can sound good but we need stuff like this to give it some backing.
Do you know how exhaustive these lists are? It seems they have around 8-10 for the classic gaps, land to sea mammals, dinosaurs to bird etc. So Basically of the thousands of different transitions we have only 8? And most of those are practically whales already.

 

[qqwref]

And most of those are practically whales already.

See what I mean?

 

[Karthik]

Do you know how exhaustive these lists are? It seems they havearound 8-10 for the classic gaps, land to sea mammals, dinosaurs tobird etc.

No. But I am sure a little more digging will yield more results. And 8-10 is good enough for me

 

[JBCM627]

That - and the video posted above your post - is so full of ******** I don't even know where to start if I want to criticize it.

To any mods reading this, why is p.i.s.s censored, but not the bold word above?

We cannot actually tell whether there are 4+ dimensions of space or not!

Saying this makes you look pretty silly, too.

for example, theoretical physicists exaggerate the density of energy of the dark materia by the factor 10^123

By this, I assume you mean particle physics has miscalculated the cosmological constant by that much.


Oh yeah, one more thing... the world is actually flat.

 

[DAE_JA_VOO]

I'm not going to bother getting involved in any debating, I'm just going to state which team I bat for.

I'm a Christian, and as such, I believe in creation. I believe that God created us.

 

[Sin-H]

for example, theoretical physicists exaggerate the density of energy of the dark materia by the factor 10^123

By this, I assume you mean particle physics has miscalculated the cosmological constant by that much.

yes. But all I know about physics are things which I have learned in German, so I am not really experienced in explaining things in English
but this leads to the situation that the cosmological constant IS exaggerated if you calculate it.

 

[d4m4s74]

I'm not going to bother getting involved in any debating, I'm just going to state which team I bat for.

I'm a Christian, and as such, I believe in creation. I believe that God created us.

the question, in what way?
do you believe in the story from the bible, your own story, combination big bang>biogenesis>evolution/ID, a combination of all of those

 

[TobiasDaneels]

I see now that it was too dangerous to start this thread.
For that I apologize. I wasn't aware that religious threads are almost always closed due to fights and suchs.
I just wanted to have an idea wether there are many people believing creationism for an article I'm preparing. You can call it "pre-writing" investigation. Sorry for the trouble.

 

[d4m4s74]

I see now that it was too dangerous to start this thread.
For that I apologize. I wasn't aware that religious threads are almost always closed due to fights and suchs.
I just wanted to have an idea wether there are many people believing creationism for an article I'm preparing. You can call it "pre-writing" investigation. Sorry for the trouble.

the "flamewars" in this thread are still lukewarm, as soon as things start burning down you'll see a close

 

[Erik]

Surely there is room for one more? Sharing is what brothers do, after all.

Sure

@ IamWEB: oki, but there is no more lazy-friend-chairs sadly, coke is no problem though. If you bring your own chair.

To add something to argue about: 'darwin was wrong'
Read here why: http://www.newsweek.com/id/180103

 

[d4m4s74]

To add something to argue about: 'darwin was wrong'
Read here why: http://www.newsweek.com/id/180103

Damn, I used to respect her
Epigenetics anyone?


I've got more proof darwin was wrong

full text from motivational:


"This is in response to the letter of Feb. 28. Let me just say that I have proof that evolution does not work and should not be mentioned in public schools.

"First proof is that last year I planted some plants in my garden. Now, the package on the seeds said tomato, but I had faith in this evolution theory that you speak of and knew they would evolve into watermelons. Well, to my dismay, they were just common old red tomatoes. You would not believe how upset I was.

"Last night I looked at my children and thought, what a wonderful thing has evolved out of the two pet fish I have. No, wait, I still have my pet fish and two of the greatest gifts God would send someone like myself that I call my children. In fact, I looked up my family tree and traced it back over 200 years and could not find anyone who ever had fins or scales.

"If you want to teach your family that they evolved, then that is your right, but please don't confuse facts with some theory you subscribe to. I do not know know how children are born and how everything is in perfect place in the body, but I am pretty sure chance had nothing to do with it.

"One day when I die, I will be sure to ask the Marker of the heavens and everything under them how He does it, and I will teach my children that all on this Earth is from God - not some fish that decided to climb out of the water and decided to be a human."
- Anthony Tester, Knoxville



semi-offtopic, someone turn on the airconditioning

 

[DcF1337]

That letter sure was a joke, but I'm not sure if that proves anything. Maybe except that some theists are totally clueless about science.

Still, laughing at someone's stupidity doesn't help any of us in this discussion (is it a discussion, or just an excuse to mock/insult each other?). I'm sure most of us here are intelligent.

 

[deco122392]

Well here is were i stand on the whole creation vs. evolution thing.

First of id like to give you some background. I am 16 and I am catholic.
Like all Christians, i was brought up to believe that Jesus Christ was and is our savior.

That being said, I will not discuss the "divinity of Jesus Christ".
I will discuss Creation vs. evolution.

I do see and believe in evolution. There is overwhelming evidence of it and it does make logical scene to me(an many others im sure).

I do also believe that there is something out there. im not sure if it is a god. im not sure what it is, im not sure its even a conscious entity.

But I have yet to understand how life, that "spark", started and how it continues.

How the body's of plants and animals along with all other "living" things can live and grow then eventually die.

This is a simple explanation of what I believe and i am willing to elaborate on parts of it if you wish to discuss them weather it be via pm or over this thread.

Many thanks for your time -Damian

 

[d4m4s74]

I have made multiple posts in this thread but I haven't even said much about the original topic

as I already said though, I'm agnostic, and believe in evolution, but untill there's a defenite theory on abiogenesis (there are hypotheses, but no theory yet) I concider the scientific hypotheses and "goddidit" equally valid. though I kinda lean to the Oparin-Haldane hypothesis (primordial soup), but only because I grew up learning that

 

[Dene]

To add something to argue about: 'darwin was wrong'
Read here why: http://www.newsweek.com/id/180103

Lol. I love how people that have absolutely no understanding of evolution can say something like "But evidence for the new Lamarckism is strong enough to say the last word on inheritance and evolution has not been written." and be taken seriously. Lamarckism just doesn't make sense. It doesn't have a place in evolution.

 

[shelley]

I see now that it was too dangerous to start this thread.
For that I apologize. I wasn't aware that religious threads are almost always closed due to fights and suchs.
I just wanted to have an idea wether there are many people believing creationism for an article I'm preparing. You can call it "pre-writing" investigation. Sorry for the trouble.

the "flamewars" in this thread are still lukewarm, as soon as things start burning down you'll see a close

Probably because most reasonable religious people accept evolution and can even see it as compatible with creationism. Only the hardcore fundamentalists who take their creation myths completely literally would disagree, and it looks like there aren't too many of those around here. If you want a real flame war, post this on a fundamentalist Christian forum.

 

[peterbat]

To add something to argue about: 'darwin was wrong'
Read here why: http://www.newsweek.com/id/180103

...and this article says absolutely nothing in favor of creationism. It's all still genetics and molecular biology.

 

[Lofty]

And most of those are practically whales already.

See what I mean?

Yea, my point was more that I would imagine getting specimens all throughout the flow not just a bunch from the end of it.

Do you know how exhaustive these lists are? It seems they havearound 8-10 for the classic gaps, land to sea mammals, dinosaurs tobird etc.

No. But I am sure a little more digging will yield more results. And 8-10 is good enough for me

But why are we to be satisfied with so few? We should question things more. Like what are the actual percentages for the chance something will be fossilized in the different climates and how do the fossils we have line up with that not just accept things.

 

[qqwref]

Only the hardcore fundamentalists who take their creation myths completely literally would disagree, and it looks like there aren't too many of those around here.

There's one on twistypuzzles, if it helps.