Compulsory testing

[CubeLTD]

This probably isn't even a serious proposal, but I'll say nay.

 

[crashdummy001]

I seriously question the judgment of anyone who dares say "aye." If a new cuber wants to start off big, so be it! Who are you wannabe-dictators to say he can't? So what if you think it's a dumb idea to start off big? Do you really think you can prevent it? What makes you think that you're the sole ruler of the cubing community? How dare you even propose a limitation on what cube one uses? It's their OWN CHOICE! If you think that it causes "stupid threads that receive a string of stupid replies" blah blah blah, no one's forcing you to be a part of this forum. You don't like the threads, you don't like the replies, then simply GTFO. You CANNOT take away anyone's right to use whatever cube they choose, whenever they choose. You may make cube selection suggestions, but you're an idiot if you say what is and what is not allowed! Now quit b----ing about "stupid threads," because you just made one yourself!

Thank you Owen, cyoubx, a small kitten, bluedasher, miniGOINGS, and CubeLTD for standing up for our basic human rights. The rest of you, please remember that NO ONE IS YOUR SLAVE.

 

[qqwref]

It's pretty clear that nobody should be forced to use a specific type of cube, but I really do wish new people would stop worrying about the right type of cube to use. It clutters up the forum and wastes people's time, because until you're reasonably fast (under 20-30 seconds or so on the 3x3, for instance) it literally doesn't matter whether you use the worst DIY available or a top-of-the-line modified GuHong. If only there was some way to convince slow people that they could just buy any modern cube and be done with it for months...

 

[cmhardw]

Alright everyone, let's not turn this into a flame war. Differing opinions are fine, but I would like to direct this to all posters in this thread to not to resort to personal attacks or insults at any point.

As for the original post, why stop there? Why not just come up with elaborate hazing rituals that all noobs must go through? Or better yet, no one new is ever allowed to join the community ever. They're just going to ask questions and make observations that have already been brought up before anyway. So, let's just forever ban all new registrations to WCA competitions and this forum and nip this in the bud. Why fix the symptom when you can fix the problem right?

I do hope everyone picks up on the sarcasm that should now be literally dripping from your monitor at this point. I think the attitudes of us "old timers" would be very different if people had yelled at us for doing the same sorts of things when we were new to the community. The only difference between old timers and current new members is that we old timers luckily skipped out on (most of) the hazing.

My $0.02

 

[Kirjava]

they should use YJ. YJ is good

 

[jms_gears1]

While I see the point other people are trying to make, I can not agree completely. It is true that seeing newcomers spending ridiculous amounts of money on cubes is very annoying and disapointing, I hardly think we can do much about it. In a way I wish that I would have never used Rubik's brand cubes and instead gone straight to DIYs, but I can not know exactly how that would have affected me. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's their money that's being spent, and it's their choice to be idiotic with it.

I stopped reading here..


MINIUBACK?

 

[Cool Frog]

A thing I have learned about this forum, got to love the dictator ship.
(bragging not complaining)

 

[IamWEB]

A ship full of dictator cubing pirates at sea, ready to bomb noob ships?

Dene's Beard is sly
Chris' Hard wick
Pi rates

 

[aridus]

It's pretty clear that nobody should be forced to use a specific type of cube, but I really do wish new people would stop worrying about the right type of cube to use. It clutters up the forum and wastes people's time, because until you're reasonably fast (under 20-30 seconds or so on the 3x3, for instance) it literally doesn't matter whether you use the worst DIY available or a top-of-the-line modified GuHong. If only there was some way to convince slow people that they could just buy any modern cube and be done with it for months...

I think this has some merit, to an extent, and hey, maybe I can't talk yet because I barely get under 1:00 who knows. However, I think just having a good ergonomic cube which turns well is an excellent choice for anyone who is going to be doing a lot of time solving.

I'm not necessarily talking about sub 20 speedsolve worthy here, I know that is beyond my scope since I don't do it yet. But having nice cubes has helped my enjoyment of it immensely. I can appreciate how well a Guhong turns and how well it cuts, it's not only for going fast but it takes much of the wasted effort out of struggling with cubes that turn like they have glue in them or lock up if you look at it wrong. Even my sister who never even solved a cube before was impressed by how totally nice and smooth my rubenking Guhong is when she was playing with it.

Lack of experience doesn't make one completely blind.

 

[moogra]

I've tried and owned both a Rubik's 4x4x4 and an Eastsheen 4x4x4 but I still don't see the point of people getting mad over the cubes other people buy. Anyone would want a good cube so just let him or her buy it. It's not really affecting anyone and he or she would be spending his or her own money. I never had problems with people with better cubes than I did such as the DIYs and I used a store bought Rubik's model until I bought a cube for myself (Haiyan Memory) in September 2010. Honestly though, who cares? If a friend wanted a cube, I'd buy a good cube for him or her. Maybe this is a common consensus with the sub-15 3x3 people that I just don't see.

 

[Dene]

It is very obvious to me that 90% of the people replying to this thread did not get what I was saying. Perhaps this is my fault because I was not clear in my intentions.

However I would like to point out a few common misconceptions:

I did not say that people should be forced to buy, or even spend any considerable period of time with, any cube. Anyone that seems to think I have claimed this, for shame! You should know better. This is especially directed at you, Mr. Hardwick. You have clearly misunderstood my intentions and have exaggerated to the extreme and I would expect better from you.

I did not say that I believe any particular type of cube is the best cube of its kind, Mr. aridus: "Yeah, not to mention "best" is relative anyway."

I did not assert any sort of dictatorship powers on which there would be any actual change to the structure of the cubing community. The fact that I put this up for vote (yet again let us stress the fact that the results of a vote would not have any implications in the real world because unlike what some people seem to think, I, nor anyone else, have any power to do anything of the sort), hence a DEMOCRACY, makes such accusations magnify the apparent stupidity of the accusers. Like seriously, I would be the worst dictator ever, asking for people to vote on things.

I was not at any stage "mad over the cubes other people buy". I have no idea at all how the poster came to this conclusion. It was not visible in my post, nor was it implied in any sense. Refer to my first point above regarding the "buy" part of that statement. (Seriously though, how did anyone even come to think that I cared what people spend there money on???)

I would like to draw particular attention to this hilarious post:

I seriously question the judgment of anyone who dares say "aye." If a new cuber wants to start off big, so be it! Who are you wannabe-dictators to say he can't? So what if you think it's a dumb idea to start off big? Do you really think you can prevent it? What makes you think that you're the sole ruler of the cubing community? How dare you even propose a limitation on what cube one uses? It's their OWN CHOICE! If you think that it causes "stupid threads that receive a string of stupid replies" blah blah blah, no one's forcing you to be a part of this forum. You don't like the threads, you don't like the replies, then simply GTFO. You CANNOT take away anyone's right to use whatever cube they choose, whenever they choose. You may make cube selection suggestions, but you're an idiot if you say what is and what is not allowed! Now quit b----ing about "stupid threads," because you just made one yourself!

Thank you Owen, cyoubx, a small kitten, bluedasher, miniGOINGS, and CubeLTD for standing up for our basic human rights. The rest of you, please remember that NO ONE IS YOUR SLAVE.

I'll look at this bit by bit.

Firstly what are you on about "start off big"? I have absolutely no idea where this is coming from. I never said anything about starting off with any particular size. Seriously, if you don't want to come across as mentally retarded then don't say things that don't make any sense.
Secondly, when did I assert at any stage that I thought I could prevent anything?
Thirdly, when did I imply at any stage that I was the ruler of the cubing community? Refer to my comment on democracy above for a response.
Fourthly, when did I at any stage say that I was going to impose a limitation on the cube that someone can use? To the contrary, I was requesting an expansion of the cubes used. Boy you are really starting to sound silly here.
Fifthly, when did I at any stage make any proposition that would remove any human rights of any human being? I'm serious, I ask you to go back to my original post, actually read it, and then tell me when I even implied that I would like to remove someones human rights. When you are done checking, and have found nothing, feel free to punish yourself in any way you feel appropriate for bringing such an accusation to an innocent person.


Now to elaborate on exactly what I meant in my original post. I'm not sure why this wasn't obvious but nevermind.

The point that I want to stress is that for some reason people these days expect every cube to be perfect out of the box. Therefore when they receive a cube such as a V5 and it takes some effort to get it into the best possible condition (and by effort I mean "a few solves" as quoted directly from the thread I cited), people immediately come on here and complain that they are bitterly disappointed. These people appear to have absolutely no idea how good the cube they are handling really is. Obviously it's not perfect, but it's good enough with some use to get WR times that could not be achieved on any other cube. Therefore I would really like it if newcomers were to try out (I DO NOT MEAN PURCHASE, NOR DO I MEAN PUTTING IN ANY STRENUOUS EFFORT) some of the other types of cubes beforehand so that they can truly understand that what they have is a gift and not a burden.

I can't think of anything else to say at this stage. Hopefully I have cleared some things up, but if anyone has questions feel free to ask and I will try to respond to everything.

 

[DGraciaRubik]

aye

 

[d4m4s74]

aye

 

[cyoubx]

The point that I want to stress is that for some reason people these days expect every cube to be perfect out of the box. Therefore when they receive a cube such as a V5 and it takes some effort to get it into the best possible condition (and by effort I mean "a few solves" as quoted directly from the thread I cited), people immediately come on here and complain that they are bitterly disappointed. These people appear to have absolutely no idea how good the cube they are handling really is. Obviously it's not perfect, but it's good enough with some use to get WR times that could not be achieved on any other cube. Therefore I would really like it if newcomers were to try out (I DO NOT MEAN PURCHASE, NOR DO I MEAN PUTTING IN ANY STRENUOUS EFFORT) some of the other types of cubes beforehand so that they can truly understand that what they have is a gift and not a burden.

I get it now Aye.

 

[Chapuunka]

I felt the "have a go with" statement was pretty clear... But once a couple people didn't read your post carefully enough and jumped to conclusions, more people were convinced that was what you meant, and the snowball effect carried it along.

EDIT: Aye. I used a Rubik's 5x5, then an ES 5x5 my friends had and thought they were pretty great. When I got my own YJ I thought it was amazing. I much more appreciated it than I see others on the forum.

 

[Cool Frog]

Now to elaborate on exactly what I meant in my original post. I'm not sure why this wasn't obvious but nevermind.

The point that I want to stress is that for some reason people these days expect every cube to be perfect out of the box. Therefore when they receive a cube such as a V5 and it takes some effort to get it into the best possible condition (and by effort I mean "a few solves" as quoted directly from the thread I cited), people immediately come on here and complain that they are bitterly disappointed. These people appear to have absolutely no idea how good the cube they are handling really is. Obviously it's not perfect, but it's good enough with some use to get WR times that could not be achieved on any other cube. Therefore I would really like it if newcomers were to try out (I DO NOT MEAN PURCHASE, NOR DO I MEAN PUTTING IN ANY STRENUOUS EFFORT) some of the other types of cubes beforehand so that they can truly understand that what they have is a gift and not a burden.

I can't think of anything else to say at this stage. Hopefully I have cleared some things up, but if anyone has questions feel free to ask and I will try to respond to everything.

So, what you are saying is, that before people make dumb posts on how other cubes are terrible they try out the not so good ones?...

Aye

 

[Jordie]

aye.

 

[cmhardw]

I vote that all newcomers should have to have a go with the old Rubik's and Eastsheen 4x4 and 5x5 cubes before they are allowed to try new V-cubes so that those of us who know what we are talking about don't have to put up with stupid threads that receive a string of stupid replies like this one anymore.

All in favour say "aye".

The point that I want to stress is that for some reason people these days expect every cube to be perfect out of the box. Therefore when they receive a cube such as a V5 and it takes some effort to get it into the best possible condition (and by effort I mean "a few solves" as quoted directly from the thread I cited), people immediately come on here and complain that they are bitterly disappointed. These people appear to have absolutely no idea how good the cube they are handling really is. Obviously it's not perfect, but it's good enough with some use to get WR times that could not be achieved on any other cube. Therefore I would really like it if newcomers were to try out (I DO NOT MEAN PURCHASE, NOR DO I MEAN PUTTING IN ANY STRENUOUS EFFORT) some of the other types of cubes beforehand so that they can truly understand that what they have is a gift and not a burden.

I can't think of anything else to say at this stage. Hopefully I have cleared some things up, but if anyone has questions feel free to ask and I will try to respond to everything.

I think your second post is better phrased personally. At least it makes your point a bit more clear. Also, it is a good point. People shouldn't freak out immediately and go to the forum for things like this. But, why should we lament these threads when they come up? The mods don't always catch threads like this right away, but generally obvious repeated threads will be merged into the originals, or closed with a re-direct. Not always, but generally.

My original reply that exaggerated to the extreme was not necessarily directed solely at you, Dene, but at the increasing number of "Stupid noobs are stupid" threads. I feel that if us older timers got hazed and yelled at more by those with more cubing experience than we had, then things would be different. One thing that will greatly reduce any tension from threads like the repeat one you linked would be to help the mods handle them by reporting them. That way these style threads can either be closed or merged into the original.

I feel that newer members should be allowed to stumble and help each other figure things out. That helps them build the next generation of cubers in the community as a tight knit group, just like us old timers (by the way, Dene, you are included in that label). Isn't that why we have the separate Speedcubing Help/Questions subforum? Any threads posted incorrectly into another sub-forum are always moved back to the Speedcubing Help/Questions area once discovered.

 

[AustinReed]

Sorry, I had to do this...

 

[crashdummy001]

Dene, I laugh at your immaturity and lack of basic language skills.

I did not say that people should be forced to buy, or even spend any considerable period of time with, any cube.

lol?? "I vote that all newcomers should [...] before they are allowed to try new V-cubes." Who are you to say that they should not be allowed to use V-cubes? Stop contradicting yourself. You ARE proposing that new members be FORCED to not use V-cubes. How else can you possibly interpret "should not be allowed"?

I did not assert any sort of dictatorship powers

You tell me how you're going to force others to use or not use certain cubes. Perhaps a letter to Verdes Innovations? Are you crazy?

I was not at any stage "mad over the cubes other people buy"... It was not visible in my post, nor was it implied in any sense.

Now that's a flat lie. "put up with stupid threads that receive a string of stupid replies." You use such adjectives, and you claim that you're not mad? Then you're mental.

Firstly what are you on about "start off big"?

You show a first-grade understanding of English. It's obvious I was not talking about the size of cubes, but the quality. You are undeniably against new cubers starting with high quality cubes. That is what I meant when I said "start off big."

Secondly, when did I assert at any stage that I thought I could prevent anything?

If you're not trying to change anything, then what's the point of this thread? Just to rage and vent? Just to draw attention to yourself? Just to waste all of our time? Just to add to the "stupid threads that receive a string of stupid replies"?

Thirdly, when did I imply at any stage that I was the ruler of the cubing community?

How else can you enforce your proposal? Why did you even make the proposal if you knew you couldn't enforce it?

Fourthly, when did I at any stage say that I was going to impose a limitation on the cube that someone can use?

When you said "before they are allowed to try." If someone is not allowed to try the V-cubes, is that not a limitation?

To the contrary, I was requesting an expansion of the cubes used.

You were not requesting anything in your original post. You were proposing a limitation.

Fifthly, when did I at any stage make any proposition that would remove any human rights of any human being?

Again, "before they are allowed to try." You can't tell anyone that he isn't allowed to try V-cubes without infringing on his rights.

innocent person

Oh, poor baby. Either you totally F'd up your original post, you have no understanding of the English language, or you're just seeking attention.

Now to elaborate on exactly what I meant... I'm not sure why this wasn't obvious

Why it wasn't obvious? Because you clearly can't use language to express yourself properly. The phrase "before they are allowed to try" almost screams, "Limitation! Dictator!"

The point that I want to stress is that for some reason people these days expect every cube to be perfect out of the box. Therefore when they receive a cube such as a V5 and it takes some effort to get it into the best possible condition (and by effort I mean "a few solves" as quoted directly from the thread I cited), people immediately come on here and complain that they are bitterly disappointed. These people appear to have absolutely no idea how good the cube they are handling really is. Obviously it's not perfect, but it's good enough with some use to get WR times that could not be achieved on any other cube. Therefore I would really like it if newcomers were to try out some of the other types of cubes beforehand so that they can truly understand that what they have is a gift and not a burden.

That's a lot better, even if you completely changed your story.