Commutator "?"

[nitrocan]

y or y' will affect the orientation of the cube if the middle layer has a piece that belongs to the U or D layer.

 

[MistArts]

y or y' will affect the orientation of the cube if the middle layer has a piece that belongs to the U or D layer.

We're talkin about the orientation of the entire cube not a cubie.

 

[JBCM627]

I agree that y' y doesn't affect the cube but y' does. It's not necessary at all though. Commutators are really for speedsolving so it's not actually needed to have a rotation to fit the fingers.

Ok. </argument>

 

[MistArts]

I agree that y' y doesn't affect the cube but y' does. It's not necessary at all though. Commutators are really for speedsolving so it's not actually needed to have a rotation to fit the fingers.

Ok. </argument>

Now about if your algorithm was direct or not...

 

[JBCM627]

By direct, I assumed lotsofsloths meant by:

I bet your gonna be like: "What do you mean directly?"
I always get 2 mis-oriented corners, how do you solve it so you don't have to orient them afterwards?

that he was only talking about the individual corners orientation, not the entire cube. If by 'directly' he also means the entire cube, then I conceed, you should not re-orient the entire cube. If he means only the corners, then ending with a y move is just as legitimate as ending with a U.

 

[MistArts]

By direct, I assumed lotsofsloths meant by:

I bet your gonna be like: "What do you mean directly?"
I always get 2 mis-oriented corners, how do you solve it so you don't have to orient them afterwards?

that he was only talking about the individual corners orientation, not the entire cube. If by 'directly' he also means the entire cube, then I conceed, you should not re-orient the entire cube. If he means only the corners, then ending with a y move is just as legitimate as ending with a U.

I think he meant to solve the pieces with (a) optimal commutator(s). So, y' doesn't start to solve anything.

 

[JBCM627]

By direct, I assumed lotsofsloths meant by:

I bet your gonna be like: "What do you mean directly?"
I always get 2 mis-oriented corners, how do you solve it so you don't have to orient them afterwards?

that he was only talking about the individual corners orientation, not the entire cube. If by 'directly' he also means the entire cube, then I conceed, you should not re-orient the entire cube. If he means only the corners, then ending with a y move is just as legitimate as ending with a U.

I think he meant to solve the pieces with (a) optimal commutator(s). So, y' doesn't start to solve anything.

Ok. On another note, I was looking at them a bit more in depth due to this discussion (perhaps I'll make another thread for this). I could only find commutators of the form X Y X' Y'. (where ' = inverse). I don't know if anyone has looked at doing something I will call an "extended commutator", or doing something of the form: (X Y) Z (X Y)' Z'. (Y X)' = (Y' X'), which can be seen when you combine the two: (Y X)(X' Y') = I, where I is doing nothing.

Here is an example of how this can be useful:
X = (R' D2 R)
Y = (F D2 F')
Z = U

 

[MistArts]

<html>

By direct, I assumed lotsofsloths meant by:

I bet your gonna be like: "What do you mean directly?"
I always get 2 mis-oriented corners, how do you solve it so you don't have to orient them afterwards?

that he was only talking about the individual corners orientation, not the entire cube. If by 'directly' he also means the entire cube, then I conceed, you should not re-orient the entire cube. If he means only the corners, then ending with a y move is just as legitimate as ending with a U.

I think he meant to solve the pieces with (a) optimal commutator(s). So, y' doesn't start to solve anything.

Ok. On another note, I was looking at them a bit more in depth due to this discussion (perhaps I'll make another thread for this). I could only find commutators of the form X Y X' Y'. (where ' = inverse). I don't know if anyone has looked at doing something I will call an "extended commutator", or doing something of the form: (X Y) Z (X Y)' Z'. (Y X)' = (Y' X'), which can be seen when you combine the two: (Y X)(X' Y') = I, where I is doing nothing.

Here is an example of how this can be useful:
X = (R' D2 R)
Y = (F D2 F')
Z = U

Commutator is either C X Y X' Y' or X Y X' Y'. You could take two commutators (5cycle) and make an sort of extended commmutator like X Y X' Y' X Z X' Z'


P.S. : This is intense research on commutators. We should make another thread. </html>

 

[JBCM627]

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?p=66733#post66733

..done

 

[dbeyer]

LF'L' B LFL' B'
or
B' R'F'R B R'FR
are perfectly good solutions.

Either way you look at it. It's an 8 move commutator.

The UFR is the lone corner.
URB and LUB are interchangeable on the B slice.
With LF'L'
You can insert the lone corner to the LUB
Likewise with R'F'R you can insert the UFR to the URB.

I uhh ... didn't read what others posted, but thats my two cents.