2008: Changes to weekly competition

[masterofthebass]

I'm not even sure there is any way to do automated forum synchronization. An idea for this though, is when a person inputs their scores, the web form spits out a formatted post of all of the scores they entered, so the person could then just copy and paste their results. For the form I have a few ideas (most of which are probably not even really ideas, but common sense):

-Maybe have an account used to keep track of a persons results, and also prevent others from posting results for a person.
-Have the ability that when you log in for a second input, you're previously entered results are filled in for you, allowing the editing of times and such.


This website would probably be done best with some sort of SQL database, but I personally have almost no experience with programming for the web. I'm sure someone on this forum could help, or maybe we can seek out extra help from someone in the community. I don't think this job would be too difficult to do, especially with all of the people who can contribute.

 

[joey]

What tim is working on using an SQL database, I assume. Also tim knows that I am here to contribute whenever needed.

 

[AvGalen]

I like that idea of a webform that produces "correctly formatted posts". I still don't have a (publicly accessible) webserver, so I have to look into this for a while.

 

[Mike Hughey]

Back to the points, why not use 3b as your method, but with 3a's participation points added? It seems to me like that would be a pretty good "3c". So if 5 people participate in 5x5x5 BLD, the top place gets 5 + 9 points, second gets 4 + 9, third gets 3 + 9, fourth gets 2 + 9, and fifth gets 1 + 9.

Also, are you figuring that participation points count when the entire event is a DNF? (I would think so, but I just thought it would be nice to clarify.)

How about placing points? So for 3b, if there are 3 people out of 6 with DNFs, do the bottom 3 each get 3 points (since they tied for third to last), or do they get 2 points (they split the points for the last 3 places among them), or do they get zero points (since they DNFed)?

By the way, I like the idea of including all official events in the competition. On several occasions, I thought about voting for all the remaining official events to be included in the competition, but I never did because I figured I was already having trouble keeping up with the events as they were. But I think this is a very good idea.

 

[CraigBouchard]

Haven't read every post, but...

I like 3a, because if someone did a 5x5 BLD, and only got 2 points, how is that fair? They've put a lot of time and effort into learning and doing it, and they should get a decent amount of points, especially because there are less than 10 people in the world who do it (on a regular basis)

 

[AvGalen]

Why didn't I think of that Mike? Unless someone else comes up with an even better idea, this is how 3c will be:
3c. Fixed participation points + "popularity sensitive" winner points

• 2x2x2 (2)
• 3x3x3 (3)
• 4x4x4 (4)
• 5x5x5 (5)
• 2x2x2_blind (3)
• 3x3x3_blind (5)
• 4x4x4_blind (7)
• 5x5x5_blind (9)
• 3x3x3_multi_blind (3 + 2 per cube)
• 3x3x3_one_handed (4)
• 3x3x3_with_feet (4)
• 3x3x3_fewest_moves (10)
• magic (1)
• master_magic (1)
• clock (2)
• megaminx (4)
• pyraminx (2)
• square-1 (4)
• 2x2x2_3x3x3_4x4x4_5x5x5_relay (6)

Participation points (see above): You only get participation points if you complete the event. That means that 1 5x5x5_bf is not enough, you need to do 2. If you DNF both, you will get the participation points anyway. If you don't know how to solve a puzzle you shouldn't participate (you shouldn't participate in 4x4x4_bf if all you know how to do is edges) officially, but if you can do so unofficially (no points will be rewarded, but you can practise and tell others how far you have come).
Winner points: If 15 people participate in an event, the winner will get 15 points, 2nd place gets 14 points and final place gets 1 point. If two people would share 2nd place to would both get 14 points and the one behind them would get 12 points. If 3 people all finish last with DNF they will all get 1 point (not 3) anyway. For multi-blind it is also important to give your time (even for 0/xx). 4 cubes in 1:00:01.01 would be DNF, 3/4 in 59:59.99 wouldn't be.

Craig: That is the advantage of 3a, but if someone would win 3x3x3 when 50 people participate in at, it is more impressive than if 1 person solves a 5x5x5_bf in 59 minutes. In that case option 3b would have been more fair. Option 3c would be good for both situations

 

[Pedro]

Participation points (see above): You only get participation points if you complete the event. That means that 1 5x5x5_bf is not enough, you need to do 2. If you DNF both, you will get the participation points anyway.

didn't get this part...so, if I DNF one attempt I get no points, but if I DNF both I get participation points? O.o

 

[Mike Hughey]

4 cubes in 1:00:01.01 would be DNF, 3/4 in 59:59.99 wouldn't be.

I think I missed something somewhere - is there a restriction that you have to finish in under an hour? Where is that restriction coming from? Does it apply to other events?

Other than that (which I'm okay with, but I just didn't know about), I like everything you're proposing, and I really like 3c as a choice.

Now I just need to come up with $100 so I can buy a Clock off of you.

 

[AvGalen]

Participation points (see above): You only get participation points if you complete the event. That means that 1 5x5x5_bf is not enough, you need to do 2. If you DNF both, you will get the participation points anyway.

didn't get this part...so, if I DNF one attempt I get no points, but if I DNF both I get participation points? O.o

That is correct. In the past we have had people that only did 2 megaminx solves, or only one 3x3x3_bf solve. I don't consider that participating. If the event is best of 2, you have to do 2 solves (even if you break the world-record on the first attempt) otherwise you will not get participation points.

Mike, we follow the WCA rules and those state:

H1b) Total time allowed for memorising and solving is the sum of: 15 minutes per cube for each cube up to 6 cubes, 10 minutes per cube for each cube more than 6 cubes.

And I have a first bid for a clock: 100 dollars

 

[ExoCorsair]

And I have a first bid for a clock: 100 dollars

I hope that's not USD.

I like 3c.

 

[Pedro]

That is correct. In the past we have had people that only did 2 megaminx solves, or only one 3x3x3_bf solve. I don't consider that participating. If the event is best of 2, you have to do 2 solves (even if you break the world-record on the first attempt) otherwise you will not get participation points.

wait...do you mean...I have to *at least try* all my attempts, right?

if I do "1:20, DNF", I still get my participation points...

 

[pjk]

I'm still in the process of creating a simpler way for people to format results via BB code. I plan to work on it this upcoming year a lot more. And I will look into ways to make these competitions easier to handle. I may be able to setup an automation system, but not positive.

Arnaud, thanks a lot for all the work you put into these competitions!

 

[AvGalen]

That is correct. In the past we have had people that only did 2 megaminx solves, or only one 3x3x3_bf solve. I don't consider that participating. If the event is best of 2, you have to do 2 solves (even if you break the world-record on the first attempt) otherwise you will not get participation points.

wait...do you mean...I have to *at least try* all my attempts, right?

if I do "1:20, DNF", I still get my participation points...

Correct. You need to attempt all your attempts (seems logical to me)

Even DNF, DNF would get you your participation points.
But DNF, DNS or 37.99, DNS don't give you participation points.

 

[ExoCorsair]

Even DNF, DNF would get you your participation points.
But DNF, DNS or 37.99, DNS don't give you participation points.

So any DNS (even DNS'ing one out of five) invalidates us from participation points? Can we still get winning points with a DNS?

 

[Mike Hughey]

Mike, we follow the WCA rules and those state:

H1b) Total time allowed for memorising and solving is the sum of: 15 minutes per cube for each cube up to 6 cubes, 10 minutes per cube for each cube more than 6 cubes.

Thanks - I had missed that back a while ago when I read the rules before I started trying them at home. It seems very logical to me - I just didn't know the rule.

And I have a first bid for a clock: 100 dollars

I'm going to have to retract my bid - I want points, but not that bad! I hope you won't think less of me for it.

Oh, and I see that you're going with best of 3 for all blindfold attempts? So to get participation points at 5x5x5 BLD, you have to do all 3 attempts? That sounds good for me!

 

[AvGalen]

You can get winning points if you do 1 solve and DNS the rest. If you DNS one solve you cannot get participation points anymore

 

[andrewvo1324]

Im confused caused im new...

IS this the sunday weekyl contest?

or like a real contest in different cities..


EDIT: This is the one that you host lol MY BAD!!!

 

[CraigBouchard]

I have a clock for sale. With original box. It is fairly stiff...but if someone pays me for it, plus shipping, I'll send it anywhere in the world...

As for the system, I still find a 5x5 BLD more impressive than someone who is faster than 50 others at 3x3. Maybe that is just me...

Craig

 

[CraigBouchard]

Also, what about applying this to real competitions, so that they can give out an award, "Best Cuber" or something...that way it awards people who do ALL events...As opposed to someone who does JUST 3x3, and is really good at it *cough* Harris *cough*.

At Canadian Competitions, Harris may come first, and win say...50 points, plus the participation, and then I may go and compete in EVERY event, and come say...3rd in each one (hypothetically) So that would be all the participation points...Maybe 30 in total based on what you said...And then the award points, but not all events have a lot of people...so I may only end up with 49 points for coming in 3rd in every event except the 3x3...And so I wouldn't be the best all around cuber, Harris would be, even though I do a lot more than him, and am fairly successful at it. It just *seems* faulty in a way.

Craig

 

[Lucas Garron]

Alright, next time I'm going to attempt a 4x4x4 BLD. Then I'll try the other scramble(s), stare all the faces for a minute, put on the BLD, and say I forgot most of my memo. That makes enough for participation... :confused: