Proposal: New megaminx scramble notation

[Carrot]

There's no doubt about the Pochmann scrambling system for megaminx was a great improvement from what we had before, but I still find it "hard" to get the scrambles correct. In my opinion the scrambling notation should help the scrambler get the scramble right over a system that is more uniformly correct with other notation systems.


Rxx Dyy = xy (never Dxx Ryy, which should be obvious for people who knows how to scramble megaminx)
odd lines being pushed slightly to the right to avoid "line slips"

example:

-+ ++ ++ ++ +-  U'
 +- -+ +- +- -+ U
+- -- +- -+ +-  U
 +- -+ ++ -+ -+ U'
-+ -- +- -- -+  U'
 ++ +- -- ++ +- U'
-+ ++ -+ -- --  U

Same using the current notation:

R-- D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D++ R++ D-- U'
R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D-- R++ D-- R-- D++ U
R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D-- R-- D++ R-- D-- U
R++ D-- R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D++ U'
R-- D++ R-- D-- R++ D-- R-- D-- R-- D++ U'
R++ D++ R++ D-- R-- D-- R++ D++ R++ D-- U'
R-- D++ R++ D++ R-- D++ R-- D-- R-- D-- U

Bookmarklet for a scrambler using this notation for google chrome. (this overlays whatever website you are on and will almost certainly break the timing function if you are on cstimer, qqtimer or another timer, but hey, Speedsolving is still functional haha)

javascript: (function(){ var script=document.createElement('script'); script.type='text/javascript'; script.src='http://competition.odderen.dk/zoe/megaminxScrambler.js'; document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(script); })();

Spoiler: You don't know what a bookmarklet is?

basically, bookmark the code as if it was a website URL, simple as that, then when you click it, the scrambler should appear.

 

[scottishcuber]

Seems like a really good idea. It's nice and concise.

Grouping the pairs of + and - makes it really easy to read. Nice.

 

[AJ Blair]

This seems perfectly reasonable. I agree that it's incredibly difficult to consistently scramble correctly. This is easy to read and seems much harder to mess up or lose your place in due to the offset and the pairing.

Great idea!

 

[ryanj92]

This is a really neat idea, reminds me of 'concise' clock scramble notation - chop off anything that is the same in every scramble, for brevity
Also the line offset thing is so simple but so effective

 

[bobthegiraffemonkey]

This will make scrambles so much easier on the eye, I hope this gets implemented.

Edit: I quickly made a (probably horribly written) scrambler in R for this, which I will be using for scrambles since I want to use Firefox with working timers. I'll post it if anyone wants, but I'm not sure of how much interest there would be since I think you need R installed to use it, but maybe someone can correct me.

 

[Iggy]

Great idea, so much easier to read.

 

[Carrot]

Thank you for the positive feedback so far!

Import scrambles to CStimer: Copy the textbox from here (it always gives fresh scrambles on refresh) -> CStimer: choose "input" in left scramble dropdown box -> paste and have fun! (50 scrambles)

Also, personally I use >=U' and <=U, to keep each line the same length on the right hand (reduces line-slips caused by U and U' lengths). I know it's very unconventional to use </> instead of U/U', which is why I didn't mention it in OP.

-+ ++ ++ ++ +-  <
 +- -+ +- +- -+ >
+- -- +- -+ +-  <
 +- -+ ++ -+ -+ <
-+ -- +- -- -+  <
 ++ +- -- ++ +- <
-+ ++ -+ -- --  >

 

[brian724080]

Great idea. I think it will also be easier to put on a smartphone application due to screen display size restrictions. However, I might not be right because I don't use a smartphone. Also learned that those javascript bookmarks are called bookmarklets

 

[Lucas Garron]

I like how readable that notation stays when it's compact, and how the pairs always start with the same side.

-+ ++ ++ ++ +-  U'
 +- -+ +- +- -+ U
+- -- +- -+ +-  U
 +- -+ ++ -+ -+ U'
-+ -- +- -- -+  U'
 ++ +- -- ++ +- U'
-+ ++ -+ -- --  U

Is this a proposal for the community, or for the WCA?

For official scrambles, we need to make sure the notation is easy to read (and remember) even for people who are not familiar with the puzzle. If we want to group moves, I'd prefer something like the following:

(R-- D++) (R++ D++) (R++ D++) (R++ D++) (R++ D--) U'
(R++ D--) (R-- D++) (R++ D--) (R++ D--) (R-- D++) U
(R++ D--) (R-- D--) (R++ D--) (R-- D++) (R-- D--) U
(R++ D--) (R-- D++) (R++ D++) (R-- D++) (R-- D++) U'
(R-- D++) (R-- D--) (R++ D--) (R-- D--) (R-- D++) U'
(R++ D++) (R++ D--) (R-- D--) (R++ D++) (R++ D--) U'
(R-- D++) (R++ D++) (R-- D++) (R-- D--) (R-- D--) U

 

[10461394944000]

Thank you for the positive feedback so far!

Import scrambles to CStimer: Copy the textbox from here (it always gives fresh scrambles on refresh) -> CStimer: choose "input" in left scramble dropdown box -> paste and have fun! (50 scrambles)

Also, personally I use >=U' and <=U, to keep each line the same length on the right hand (reduces line-slips caused by U and U' lengths). I know it's very unconventional to use </> instead of U/U', which is why I didn't mention it in OP.

-+ ++ ++ ++ +-  <
 +- -+ +- +- -+ >
+- -- +- -+ +-  <
 +- -+ ++ -+ -+ <
-+ -- +- -- -+  <
 ++ +- -- ++ +- <
-+ ++ -+ -- --  >

I'm pretty sure each line of a WCA scramble ends with U if the previous move was D++ and U' if the previous move was D--, so you dont even need the last U/U'/</>

 

[Renslay]

For official scrambles, we need to make sure the notation is easy to read (and remember) even for people who are not familiar with the puzzle. If we want to group moves, I'd prefer something like the following:

(R-- D++) (R++ D++) (R++ D++) (R++ D++) (R++ D--) U'
(R++ D--) (R-- D++) (R++ D--) (R++ D--) (R-- D++) U
(R++ D--) (R-- D--) (R++ D--) (R-- D++) (R-- D--) U
(R++ D--) (R-- D++) (R++ D++) (R-- D++) (R-- D++) U'
(R-- D++) (R-- D--) (R++ D--) (R-- D--) (R-- D++) U'
(R++ D++) (R++ D--) (R-- D--) (R++ D++) (R++ D--) U'
(R-- D++) (R++ D++) (R-- D++) (R-- D--) (R-- D--) U

Agree. There is no need to compress the scramble. With the -+ ++ +- etc. I would forget from time to time if the scramble would start with R-- or D--, and I'm sure I would mix the ++ with a single D++ or R++ (instead of R++ D++).

But the grouping is a good idea. It's easier to see what is the next turn during a scrambling.

 

[scottishcuber]

Agree. There is no need to compress the scramble. With the -+ ++ +- etc. I would forget from time to time if the scramble would start with R-- or D--, and I'm sure I would mix the ++ with a single D++ or R++ (instead of R++ D++)

You would get used to it pretty easily with a little bit of practice, in my opinion.

 

[Renslay]

You would get used to pretty easily with a little bit of practice, in my opinion.

I have no doubt about that, but I won't practice (as I do not do megaminx). However, I can be called to the scrambling table for scrambling megaminxes - and there I would be confused many times with this type of notation. And I'm sure I won't be alone.

Just for the record, it happened that I had to help with the pyraminx scrambles on an official competition. I asked the person next to me what does the notation mean, he explained it in like 10 seconds, and then I had no problem with the scrambling (because Pyra scrambles are actually pretty easy to read and understand).

Just as Lucas said, it's important to keep the scrambling easy to understand and perform, not thinking too much about what symbol means what. I think the "R" and "D" (and "U") letters are important to avoid confusion.

 

[Pedro]

I think having lines with different colors would already help a lot against the "getting lost in the scramble" thing. Also, we could use just one + or - instead of 2, and rewrite 12d2 like this:

12d2) Other moves are applied while keeping 3 pieces fixed at top left of the puzzle:
12d2c) Clockwise 144 degrees move of whole puzzle except for the slice of top left three pieces: R+ (vertical slices), D+ (horizontal slices).
12d2d) Anti-clockwise 144 degrees move of whole puzzle except for the slice of top left three pieces: R- (vertical slices), D- (horizontal slices).

(R-- D++) (R++ D++) (R++ D++) (R++ D++) (R++ D--) U'
(R++ D--) (R-- D++) (R++ D--) (R++ D--) (R-- D++) U
(R++ D--) (R-- D--) (R++ D--) (R-- D++) (R-- D--) U
(R++ D--) (R-- D++) (R++ D++) (R-- D++) (R-- D++) U'
(R-- D++) (R-- D--) (R++ D--) (R-- D--) (R-- D++) U'
(R++ D++) (R++ D--) (R-- D--) (R++ D++) (R++ D--) U'
(R-- D++) (R++ D++) (R-- D++) (R-- D--) (R-- D--) U

(R- D+) (R+ D+) (R+ D+) (R+ D+) (R+ D-) U'
(R+ D-) (R- D+) (R+ D-) (R+ D-) (R- D+) U
(R+ D-) (R- D-) (R+ D-) (R- D+) (R- D-) U
(R+ D-) (R- D+) (R+ D+) (R- D+) (R- D+) U'
(R- D+) (R- D-) (R+ D-) (R- D-) (R- D+) U'
(R+ D+) (R+ D-) (R- D-) (R+ D+) (R+ D-) U'
(R- D+) (R+ D+) (R- D+) (R- D-) (R- D-) U

Example:

http://www.cuber.com.br/minxscramble.html

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

The issue I have with the current WCA scrambles is that it is very easy to lose track of what line you're on, and I think this is a larger problem than the readability of each individual line. While shortening to a single +/- or similar is a good idea, the issue with each line looking very similar is still present. The line offset idea in the original post is nice, or maybe an extra line space after each 2 lines would be good as well.

 

[Lucas Garron]

The issue I have with the current WCA scrambles is that it is very easy to lose track of what line you're on, and I think this is a larger problem than the readability of each individual line. While shortening to a single +/- or similar is a good idea, the issue with each line looking very similar is still present. The line offset idea in the original post is nice, or maybe an extra line space after each 2 lines would be good as well.

See https://github.com/cubing/tnoodle/issues/155 for current plans (white/gray row highlights, similar to the WCA results tables themselves).

 

[EMI]

Good idea. I also don't quite like the fact that a scrambler at a competition would have to know which move he has to begin with - it is always useful if people that don't do the event can still scramble the puzzle, and if practise is needed to do so, it makes things complicated. I think a very intuitive notation would be Dw, Rw and U moves.
(This is not a very strong argument though, as I believe many people do Megaminx and the scrambling notation can be explained fast either way. I think it's more problematic with clock.)
Grouping moves and other ways to make distiction between lines / moves easier is definitely a good thing for some events.

 

[bobthegiraffemonkey]

Regarding concerns about the new notation being confusing or unclear to people not as familiar with normal scrambling notation, couldn't there be a short description/example on the scramble sheet?

 

[maps600]

I think the grouping is a really good idea. However, I do think that the double plus and minus signs after the letter isn't necessary. Only one plus would really be necessary.

 

[Divineskulls]

This was such an awesome idea, I can't wait for it to be integrated into cstimer and qqtimer.