Hypocrism
Veteran
Full PLL is a start; slowing down on F2L and making it more efficient with fewer pauses is the long term improvement strategy.
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Breaking sub-30 on 3x3
- Thread starter Twix
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- #gettingsub45
CriticalCubing
Veteran
Try learning full pll and go slow with minimal pauses! Improve recognition for the 2 look oll and then pll. With this you can be 22 sec or sub 20! Practice lookahead also but it takes time to get used to it!
Nilsibert
Veteran
I learned full PLL from the start, so I don't know how much difference it makes to 2look. But in general I'd say: Stop timing yourself! Just solve, study your cross and F2L cases. Maybe there's much better ways for certain F2L cases? When I was stuck at over 40 seconds, that's what I did and I almost jumped to sub 30s solves after a few days. I wouldn't even worry TOO much about look ahead yet. Watch example solves by faster people for fingertricks and cases.
Future Cuber
Veteran
I say... you do the 3x3 stage on the 6x6 and 7x7 and keep your 3x3 aside
why??? because your turning speed will be slow and lookahead will improve alot
and you're used to big cubes and the 3x3 will be very small in your hands
And then you come back to 3x3 and notice the improvement
I have experinced this ......... :tu
Good luck
Betashadow9991
Member
I get what you are going through dude it took me awhile to get past my 45 second barrier but just keep learning finger tricks and faster f2l and make sure to start on the bottom, less x,y, and z movement helps speed.
Yeah that's true but I wouldn't agree, he shouldn't put down the 3x3 completely, but he should focus on he larger sizes if they are more comfortable. But completely putting down a cube wouldn't be wise in my eyes.
Yeah that's true but I wouldn't agree, he shouldn't put down the 3x3 completely, but he should focus on he larger sizes if they are more comfortable. But completely putting down a cube wouldn't be wise in my eyes.
Last edited by a moderator:
mark49152
Premium Member
I would say learn full PLL, and drill algs repeatedly on their own to develop TPS. Also, F2L practice. You should be able to solve just the 4 pairs in about 15s. If you're much slower than that, make sure you have efficient solutions to each case, and try F2L practice techniques like solving pairs blind.
RicardoRix
Regular
I've been cubing for over a year, and am stuck and have been for about 6 months on a global average of 38. I know full PLL and have done since the start. The pauses and the getting algs wrong is a real PITA too. My biggest grief is that I just can't see pairs, occasionally a 4 or 5 second pause looking for a pair is really painful.
My turning speed is not the best. Slowing down trying to be smooth and look-ahead or going as fast as I can make no difference. I don't believe that I will get significantly faster in the future. If I get a sub30 then everything falls into place with a lot of easy F2L cases and such. Even then I can feel like I've done nothing particularly wrong and have little or no pauses and still get a 40.
I think some of us just aren't cut from the same cloth. I'm guessing (or rather hoping) that fast people are very positive and vocal and the slower solvers tend to hide in the shadows a bit more readily.
My turning speed is not the best. Slowing down trying to be smooth and look-ahead or going as fast as I can make no difference. I don't believe that I will get significantly faster in the future. If I get a sub30 then everything falls into place with a lot of easy F2L cases and such. Even then I can feel like I've done nothing particularly wrong and have little or no pauses and still get a 40.
I think some of us just aren't cut from the same cloth. I'm guessing (or rather hoping) that fast people are very positive and vocal and the slower solvers tend to hide in the shadows a bit more readily.
DeeDubb
Veteran
I agree, everyone has different limits, but I think it's still possible for you to improve beyond 38 seconds. Try learning new methods for F2L, or even look at other methods like Roux or ZZ that might click with you a little better.
But, it's also easier for people to tell if you can post a video of your solves. I agree that slower solvers tend to be less vocal on the forums, maybe out of intimidation, but I think for the most part the very fast people are supportive and also enjoy seeing progress from slower people. If someone improves from 1:30 to 1:00, I think that's just as awesome as seeing someone go from 10 seconds to 9.5 seconds. It's fun to watch improvement in everyone. The thing I love about cubing is the competition against yourself.
There are actually quite a few factors that affect how fast someone gets. It's not so much that it's hard to get faster beyond sub-30 as it is that the gains for the additional changes get smaller. The closer we get to 0, the more work it'll take to get faster.
What are the things that affect speed the most?
1 - Solving method and knowledge about it (advanced F2L, 2LLL, EO-Line, Block building, Reduction methods, etc).
2 - Fingertricks and speedily executed algorithms.
4 - Practice and drilling (for example, drilling algorithms to perfect their execution and speed, or practicing F2L look-ahead, or EO-Line, or blockbuilding, PLL recog, etc.).
And there are two things that slow us down the most. Our hands, and our minds.
If we take too long executing algorithms, then we should perhaps look to find a more optimal algorithm and perfect it's fingertricking (even if you have to add unusual things like using your left ring finger to perform D moves), and then drill it until it can be executed at maximum speed (this will also increase your flexibility in using other fingertricks). Repeat this exercise frequently with your slowest algorithms.
If we take too long to recognize what we need to do next, then we should drill that as well. Be it F2L pairs and lookahead, or OLL/PLL recog, or EO-Line setup, or whatever. Practice and drill it until the recognition becomes instantaneous and the execution becomes automatic. And go slow and look ahead when practicing these so that you can more easily build the habit of execution without pausing.
There are plenty of threads, discussions, and even videos about these techniques. You can find everything from PLL recog systems using just two sides to a site full of F2L algorithms to example solves on youtube by WR holders. These tools are there so that we can juice from them every split second of advantage that we can get.
And it's not just the things that get us the big speed increases, but it's the combination of the hundreds of simple things that give split second advantages. Like drops in a bucket, they add up.
To respond to the statement "It's hard to get faster sub-30", if by 'hard' you mean difficult, then not so much. But if by 'hard' you mean hard work, then absolutely. But it is absolutely possible, and I believe that anyone, given the dedication, can improve a great deal beyond sub-30, and even sub-20.
So don't get discouraged, you can do it, I know you can. Just continue to learn, adapt, drill, and practice, and you'll get better. It could take some time to fully accustom to the changes and get faster speeds, but they will come if you keep trying.
What are the things that affect speed the most?
1 - Solving method and knowledge about it (advanced F2L, 2LLL, EO-Line, Block building, Reduction methods, etc).
2 - Fingertricks and speedily executed algorithms.
4 - Practice and drilling (for example, drilling algorithms to perfect their execution and speed, or practicing F2L look-ahead, or EO-Line, or blockbuilding, PLL recog, etc.).
And there are two things that slow us down the most. Our hands, and our minds.
If we take too long executing algorithms, then we should perhaps look to find a more optimal algorithm and perfect it's fingertricking (even if you have to add unusual things like using your left ring finger to perform D moves), and then drill it until it can be executed at maximum speed (this will also increase your flexibility in using other fingertricks). Repeat this exercise frequently with your slowest algorithms.
If we take too long to recognize what we need to do next, then we should drill that as well. Be it F2L pairs and lookahead, or OLL/PLL recog, or EO-Line setup, or whatever. Practice and drill it until the recognition becomes instantaneous and the execution becomes automatic. And go slow and look ahead when practicing these so that you can more easily build the habit of execution without pausing.
There are plenty of threads, discussions, and even videos about these techniques. You can find everything from PLL recog systems using just two sides to a site full of F2L algorithms to example solves on youtube by WR holders. These tools are there so that we can juice from them every split second of advantage that we can get.
And it's not just the things that get us the big speed increases, but it's the combination of the hundreds of simple things that give split second advantages. Like drops in a bucket, they add up.
To respond to the statement "It's hard to get faster sub-30", if by 'hard' you mean difficult, then not so much. But if by 'hard' you mean hard work, then absolutely. But it is absolutely possible, and I believe that anyone, given the dedication, can improve a great deal beyond sub-30, and even sub-20.
So don't get discouraged, you can do it, I know you can. Just continue to learn, adapt, drill, and practice, and you'll get better. It could take some time to fully accustom to the changes and get faster speeds, but they will come if you keep trying.
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DeeDubb
Veteran
I agree with Dane man. I would like to add a very basic way to conceptualize speed solving
Seconds to solve = Turns / Turns per Second
So, the only way to lower the amount of seconds it takes us to solve is either to increase our turns per second or lower our turns.
How we raise our TPS:
Practice timed solves... over and over and over and over.... I think people should count how long they've been cubing by the amount of solves they've done instead of the amount of months/years they've been solving.
Learn more efficient algorithms (do you find something doesn't work well with your style? Find a better algorithm that you can execute faster)
Incorporate algorithms into muscle memory by drilling them
Reduce pauses (this is something that just takes practice, but it's not something you can train for specifically very well, IMO)
Study finger trick videos
How we lower our turns
Learn more algorithms (already learned PLL? Add OLL, already have OLL? Look at VLS, Winter variation, COLL, etc...)
Learn more about the fundamentals of the cube
Practice untimed solves to experiment with different ways of solving particular cases and steps
Study example solve videos
I think we often neglect the second part because we get comfortable with the way we solve the cube, and trying to add new tools to the arsenal requires taking a step backwards before we see results (I'm still working on getting my color neutral times down to my fixed block times).
Seconds to solve = Turns / Turns per Second
So, the only way to lower the amount of seconds it takes us to solve is either to increase our turns per second or lower our turns.
How we raise our TPS:
Practice timed solves... over and over and over and over.... I think people should count how long they've been cubing by the amount of solves they've done instead of the amount of months/years they've been solving.
Learn more efficient algorithms (do you find something doesn't work well with your style? Find a better algorithm that you can execute faster)
Incorporate algorithms into muscle memory by drilling them
Reduce pauses (this is something that just takes practice, but it's not something you can train for specifically very well, IMO)
Study finger trick videos
How we lower our turns
Learn more algorithms (already learned PLL? Add OLL, already have OLL? Look at VLS, Winter variation, COLL, etc...)
Learn more about the fundamentals of the cube
Practice untimed solves to experiment with different ways of solving particular cases and steps
Study example solve videos
I think we often neglect the second part because we get comfortable with the way we solve the cube, and trying to add new tools to the arsenal requires taking a step backwards before we see results (I'm still working on getting my color neutral times down to my fixed block times).
SolveThatCube
Veteran
Dude, don't stress.
Cuddly Cuber
Member
Practice doing slow solves with constant look ahead and no stops. I've hit a barrier except I can't get sub 20 averages :/. Just keep practicing and eventually you'll get there!
bran
Regular
Try turning as fast as you can for a week or two, to improve your raw TPS. Then, try to reduce pauses in your solves, gradually decreasing your turn speed if you find it hard to 'not pause'. Hope it helps
mark49152
Premium Member
Lots of good advice already but I would just add that like many, I also hit plateaus and thought I wouldn't improve. Mine were around 45, then 32, and now 22. Just keep exploring different practice methods and don't fall into the trap of just practising unproductively. Always think about what you can improve and how.
Specifically, and these might not be best for everybody, but my top two tips would be to drill algs as fast as possible to develop general TPS, and practise solving F2L pairs blind (also as fast as possible) to help free the eyes for finding the next pair.
PJKCuber
Veteran
Work harder on F2L Lookahead. I don't know full PLL and average 25 in 2 months.
pipkiksass
Veteran
Ugh Mark... 22 was horrendous for me. Just awful! As ever, lookahead is the key. I just don't understand how Faz etc al. can do cross+1 in 1.5 seconds, but I guess it's something to aspire to!
mark49152
Premium Member
Yeah 22 feels different. Of course those other plateaus were hard to break, but I could always clearly see room for improvement - slow TPS, too much reliance on 2-look, pauses looking for pairs or recognising cases, clumsy rotations, etc. Those things felt slow.
At 22 it feels like there's not much room for improvement. I'm going as fast as I can imagine going, good repertoire of well-practised algs, not pausing much, recognising cases quickly, etc. I find it hard to imagine going much faster. There's just not as much slack to take up, and it takes more work to make smaller progressions.
Of course I do know that there IS room for improvement, it just doesn't feel like it. I also know what I need to do, and I have a plan, and am still enjoying it. One day I'll be pushing sub-15 and looking back saying "22 was easy compared to this"
Petro Leum
Veteran
how many hours per day do you practise?
mark49152
Premium Member
Who is that directed at? The previous post (mine) or the OP?
If you meant me, I'm lucky if I can find an hour a day to do proper practice, but I do spend a lot of time absent-mindedly solving or drilling while on conference calls for work
Petro Leum
Veteran
Who is that directed at? The previous post (mine) or the OP?
If you meant me, I'm lucky if I can find an hour a day to do proper practice, but I do spend a lot of time absent-mindedly solving or drilling while on conference calls for work
i meant the op.
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