What is considered a "skip"?

[StarOfDoom]

Hello, so I have been wondering, some people keep there best non-skip, and best with any skips, but are the only skips a OLL, and a PLL? What if you get an f2l pair already in the correct place.. would that be a skip? Because I am a ~28 second solver, and got a 13 second solve, with 2 f2l pairs already in... but not OLL or PLL skip.. what should I count it as?

 

[TDM]

You can skip anything, even F2L pairs. I might say I accidentally made an XX-cross or something similar to that.

 

[QQW]

I find that people shouldn't qualify solves of "skip" or " no skip" because skips are technically part of the probability. A solve is still fully valid even if there were one/multiple skips. That is also why PBs are NOT a good indicator of a cuber's skill level. You could have a solve with a 2-move f2l and it would still be legitimate. For this reason, when somebody asks me my PB, I never tell them ( my average is 21.5 and my PB 14.8).

 

[Rocky0701]

A single doesn't really say a cubers skill whether it was a skip or not. Your average is more just your PB ao100 plus like half a second or something. I consider skips to be any step that was not executed during a solve, but usually is necessary.

 

[kcl]

I find that people shouldn't qualify solves of "skip" or " no skip" because skips are technically part of the probability. A solve is still fully valid even if there were one/multiple skips. That is also why PBs are NOT a good indicator of a cuber's skill level. You could have a solve with a 2-move f2l and it would still be legitimate. For this reason, when somebody asks me my PB, I never tell them ( my average is 21.5 and my PB 14.8).

This is not necessarily true. Even with a two move f2l, I highly doubt a sup 20 solver could sub 5 a solve. I doubt even just a normal LL scramble could be sub 5'd by someone sup 20. Skill is definitely reflected by your PB, but it's to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[StarOfDoom]

I agree with you guys, my PB is 13... but my avg. is 27-28 xD Not a good show at all... just is still nice to be proud.. but this isn't really my question... my question was if I should count an f2l pair already inserted as a "skip" and not a "completely "legit" solve"

 

[GuRoux]

I agree with you guys, my PB is 13... but my avg. is 27-28 xD Not a good show at all... just is still nice to be proud.. but this isn't really my question... my question was if I should count an f2l pair already inserted as a "skip" and not a "completely "legit" solve"

definitely a legit solve. Don't really care how your pb was created, lucky or not. What really matters is your average.

 

[Lucas Garron]

According to an old definition:

A lucky record is any solve of a puzzle where a step of your normal solution is skipped.
There are three exceptions:
1) You worked for it, f.i. by anticipating the next step.
2) The chance to skip the step is 20 percent or more.
3) The skipped step represents 3 percent or less of the total moves of the complete solution.
Example: if you use the cross/F2L/OLL/PLL system, then there are 7 steps, and skipping one of the steps would be a lucky case.

 

[DeeDubb]

According to an old definition:

A lucky record is any solve of a puzzle where a step of your normal solution is skipped.
There are three exceptions:
1) You worked for it, f.i. by anticipating the next step.
2) The chance to skip the step is 20 percent or more.
3) The skipped step represents 3 percent or less of the total moves of the complete solution.
Example: if you use the cross/F2L/OLL/PLL system, then there are 7 steps, and skipping one of the steps would be a lucky case.

3 percent? Basically, for a 3x3, that's like 1 or 2 moves, right? What step only takes 1 or 2 moves? (maybe that only applies to big cubes?)

 

[GuRoux]

actually, now that i think about it, what happens if you "force" a skip? lucky or not?

 

[Rocky0701]

actually, now that i think about it, what happens if you "force" a skip? lucky or not?

I would say lucky because there aren't many cases where you are able to skip a step.

 

[Jihu Mun]

well if you did something like edge control like F R' F' R or F R U R' F' it would still be full step.

 

[IRNjuggle28]

I would say lucky because there aren't many cases where you are able to skip a step.

Disagree. If you "force" a skip, you're not actually skipping anything.

Example: After F2L, you get a T OLL case. And you use a ZBLL algorithm to solve the last layer. Did you get a PLL skip? No. PLL is not a step in that solve. Using ZBLL implies that you will solve the last layer in 1 look.

If you insert with sledgehammer instead of U R U' R' and get an EO skip because of that, did you get an EO skip? No. EO was not a part of that solve. VH implies an EO skip.

I'm sure you get my point. And what you said seems wrong to me because there are tons of cases you can skip steps. For example, Mats Valk knows enough OLS to get an OLL skip about 1/3 solves.

 

[XTowncuber]

Disagree. If you "force" a skip, you're not actually skipping anything.

Example: After F2L, you get a T OLL case. And you use a ZBLL algorithm to solve the last layer. Did you get a PLL skip? No. PLL is not a step in that solve. Using ZBLL implies that you will solve the last layer in 1 look.

If you insert with sledgehammer instead of U R U' R' and get an EO skip because of that, did you get an EO skip? No. EO was not a part of that solve. VH implies an EO skip.

I'm sure you get my point. And what you said seems wrong to me because there are tons of cases you can skip steps. For example, Mats Valk knows enough OLS to get an OLL skip about 1/3 solves.

I think his point was that (for example) because Mats can only force OLL skips on 1/3 cases, He requires just a tiny bit of "luck" in order to get a case that he can force a skip on. He is more likely to get a case on which he cannot force a skip.

This effect is even more dramatic if I could only force a skip 1/100 times or something. When I do use that one case I have indeed forced a skip, but as there was only a 1/100 chance of me being able to force a skip, it was still a bit "lucky".

 

[GuRoux]

i feel like forcing a skip is not luck; rather, it is skill based.

 

[Ranzha]

I separate kinds of skips into three overarching categories:
1) The surprise. These skips are unexpected and unplanned (e.g. if you get an unplanned PLL skip).
2) The epiphany. These skips are realized while turning (e.g. if you figure that the OLL alg you're doing will skip PLL).
3) The force. These skips are deliberate and fully intentional (e.g. if you do a WV alg to skip OLL).

 

[Bindedsa]

I would say lucky because there aren't many cases where you are able to skip a step.

There is no step in any method that cannot be skipped, it might be difficult or unrealistic, but combining two steps into one can always done. Things like OLS, ZBLL and Xcrosses are used with success, but plenty of ways have been theorized to combine different step in many methods that are not as speed friendly.

 

[Bindedsa]

I would say lucky because there aren't many cases where you are able to skip a step.

There is no step in any method that cannot be skipped, it might be difficult or unrealistic, but combining two steps into one can always done. Things like OLS, ZBLL and Xcrosses are used with success, but plenty of ways have been theorized to combine different step in many methods that are not as speed friendly.

 

[guysensei1]

There is no step in any method that cannot be skipped, it might be difficult or unrealistic, but combining two steps into one can always done. Things like OLS, ZBLL and Xcrosses are used with success, but plenty of ways have been theorized to combine different step in many methods that are not as speed friendly.

EG skip lol 1 look 2x2 oh wait.

 

[mark49152]

i feel like forcing a skip is not luck; rather, it is skill based.

Yes, and luck isn't a good reason to discount a single PB anyway. Luck plays a part in all solves, even full-step. Suppose you get a PB with easy cross and F2L cases, 6-move OLL and U-perm. Is that a lucky or non-lucky PB?

Full-step is a better qualifier for a "genuine" single PB. Changing those steps on the fly according to what you see in front of you, e.g. edge control and ZBLL instead of OLL/PLL, is perfectly valid.

Also, sometimes I think our use of the word "skip" is a misnomer. If you arrive at the PLL stage and fortuitously find the cube solved, that's a real skip. If you choose to do OLS, are you "skipping" OLL? No, you are combining it with last slot, but still doing work to solve it. Calling that an OLL "skip" seems wrong to me. Same goes for saying ZBLL forces PLL skip - it doesn't, it's just an alternative route that doesn't require PLL.