WCA Regulations Committee considering allowing logos for bld solving

[precompsubwr]

World Cube Association

The World Cube Association governs competitions for mechanical puzzles that are operated by twisting groups of pieces, commonly known as 'twisty puzzles'. The most famous of these puzzles is the Rubik's Cube, invented by professor Rubik from Hungary. A selection of these puzzles are chosen as...

forum.worldcubeassociation.org

Here's the wca forum link

Note: In 4bld logos are not allowed and in 5bld logos are only allowed on the most central center piece

 

[Mike Hughey]

I am personally very much in favor of this. If the manufacturers were not making it difficult to remove the logo safely, I would be against it, but as it is, it is too much of a burden for either the competitor or the delegate or both trying to enforce the rule as it is, or using the other approach of allowing only logos that cannot be felt. The reasoning given behind this proposed rule looks really good to me.

I am personally concerned because I was able to remove the logo completely from both of my Tornado V3 Pioneers, but if held in just the right light, you can still see that the logo piece has a faint shape that is visible in the plastic (but totally not able to be felt) which catches the light differently - I can only assume it is done so that it can take the logo printing better. So even though I've been assured this is a valid cube for competition with the logo removed, it is uncomfortable knowing there is a visible difference on that piece (in very bright light).

 

[bldcuber314]

World Cube Association

The World Cube Association governs competitions for mechanical puzzles that are operated by twisting groups of pieces, commonly known as 'twisty puzzles'. The most famous of these puzzles is the Rubik's Cube, invented by professor Rubik from Hungary. A selection of these puzzles are chosen as...

forum.worldcubeassociation.org

Here's the wca forum link

Note: In 4bld logos are not allowed and in 5bld logos are only allowed on the most central center piece

I am personally very much in favor of this. If the manufacturers were not making it difficult to remove the logo safely, I would be against it, but as it is, it is too much of a burden for either the competitor or the delegate or both trying to enforce the rule as it is, or using the other approach of allowing only logos that cannot be felt. The reasoning given behind this proposed rule looks really good to me.

I am personally concerned because I was able to remove the logo completely from both of my Tornado V3 Pioneers, but if held in just the right light, you can still see that the logo piece has a faint shape that is visible in the plastic (but totally not able to be felt) which catches the light differently - I can only assume it is done so that it can take the logo printing better. So even though I've been assured this is a valid cube for competition with the logo removed, it is uncomfortable knowing there is a visible difference on that piece (in very bright light).

Can somebody summarise please? I'm getting error 429 too many requests.

Edit- No problem it's gone.

 

[Isaiah Scott]

I’m definitely in support of this. I am a foreigner to blind solving, but very few cubes released nowadays have logo stickers that can easily be removed, and wanting to use modern hardware such as cubes with edge repelling magnets, core magnets, maglev, etc and not being able to due to a logo that is not only nonremovable but also nonnonticeable is stupid

 

[NebraskanSpeedsolver]

I am not a BLD solver, but I do think these regulations will make a lot of those solvers happy. I feel like this regulation should have been changed a long time ago, with the innovation of UV logos that don't wear off with use.

 

[Fred]

I'm very much in favor of this change. One of the cool things about cubing is that with just a 3x3 cube, you can compete in 3x3, OH, BLD, and FMC (RIP feet) with the same puzzle. This change eliminates the need for a BLD-specific 3x3. If you need to feel where the logo is, you're using bad algs. (Edit: I suppose you could check for parity doing M2?) I kinda wish they'd also allow logos on 4v4 under UV coating, but at least that affects far fewer people, and the people that are super serious about 4BLD actually do want a BLD-specific 4x4 (see SteVin).

 

[bldcuber314]

I really hope this rule is implemented, removing logos is getting harder and harder and new competitors may not know about the rule.

 

[precompsubwr]

Here are my thoughts on this:
I think it's a great change with some drawbacks, it shouldn't matter if logos are removable or not, because if you can't feel them then it doesn't matter
Also this prevents the hassle of trying to remove logos of buying new ones entirely, but there might be a problem
I was talking with a few people in the bld solvers discord and they said that they're also allowing removable logos that you can feel, not sure if this is true but if it is then it might be a problem. If someone drops their cube in the middle of exec it'll be easier to reorient the cube, with a 1/4 chance of getting it correct, compared to the 1/24 chance for cubers with no logos or logos that you can't feel (at that point you should just give up)
Also if the logo has some deformities (such as a corner being slightly off the surface) it'll be even easier to reorient it, only if the center orientation doesn't change, which is most likely the case for 3bld if you don't use OP/OP

I'm still happy with this change, I just think they should still not allow removable logos because it can possibly give people an unsure advantage and it's really easy to get off, unless your logo absolutely cannot come off or there's residue left over (however I solved this by running the piece with residue under water, it was a center cap)

TLDR: Great change but they shouldn't allow removable logos

 

[SkewbIsTheBestEvent]

Personally I think the proposal should be changed to,"Logos will be allowed in any blindfold event, as long you cannot feel it" Most of the time (like on the v9 or v10) are the ones that are hard to remove, but also the ones you can't feel. Scramblers could feel the cube when scrambling and if they feel the logo they can give it to a delegate to confirm, who will then inform the competitor. Since most blinders will know about this, this will likely only have to be done once or twice every round, which isn't a setback at all.

 

[Mike Hughey]

Personally I think the proposal should be changed to,"Logos will be allowed in any blindfold event, as long you cannot feel it" Most of the time (like on the v9 or v10) are the ones that are hard to remove, but also the ones you can't feel. Scramblers could feel the cube when scrambling and if they feel the logo they can give it to a delegate to confirm, who will then inform the competitor. Since most blinders will know about this, this will likely only have to be done once or twice every round, which isn't a setback at all.

The problem with this approach (which is covered in the original link) is that it is too difficult to have it properly implemented by the delegate. There is often disagreement on what can be felt. Consistency is too difficult. I agree that this is a problem, which is why I think it's best to just allow them even if they can be felt.

The logos make absolutely no difference for world class solvers. There's no way a world record solve would ever include feeling for a logo - it would take too much time. All it does is lower the bar extremely slightly for beginners, and it seems like that's not worth the effort or problems.

 

[Clock_Enthusiast]

I most definitely agree with allowing UV-coated logos, as it makes zero sense to ban them if they're completely undetectable during solves. I do wonder the issues that may come with events such as MBLD. As someone said on the WCA forum post, cubes may be distinguishable from one another depending on orientation. I'm not an MBLD solver so I can't confirm nor deny how accurate that is, but it does seem like patterns could be implemented in some manner with logos (or even a mixture of logos, for that matter!).

 

[Spencer131]

if logos are allowed in 3bld, 5bld, and multi, but not 4bld, i could see that being confusing to a newcomer. nobody is going to read the regulations that thoroughly

 

[AhsanDaCuber125]

This is a good move by the WCA.

 

[abunickabhi]

I feel this makes things easier,

but there is more potential for malpractices if all the delegates are not careful about checking 4x4 puzzles.

 

[An Animating Cuber]

I personally don’t agree with this idea but I’m not a blinder and if other blinders agree it’s good I guess we can sacrifice some of the solving aspect (still salty abt pin reg changes) to make comps easier

 

[AhsanDaCuber125]

But why is 4BLD the only BLD event banned from having logos.
Are logos more sensitive, like you can feel it?

 

[An Animating Cuber]

But why is 4BLD the only BLD event banned from having logos.
Are logos more sensitive, like you can feel it?

If you can feel it you know if your center is solved compared to 3x3 and 5x5 where centers are fixed

 

[bldcuber314]

if logos are allowed in 3bld, 5bld, and multi, but not 4bld, i could see that being confusing to a newcomer. nobody is going to read the regulations that thoroughly

I feel like if you are doing 4BLD, you are probably serious enough about blindsolving to know this rule. 3BLD has much more beginners who average like 6 minutes with a very low success rate, who are less likely to know the rule.

 

[precompsubwr]

But why is 4BLD the only BLD event banned from having logos.
Are logos more sensitive, like you can feel it?

Centers move around in 4bld solving, you solve the centers first which allows you to feel if your logo center is solved for the rest of the attempt

 

[Jorian Meeuse]

Good. There were always two rules in the regulations that I didn't agree with, namely not being allowed to push clock pins in inspection, and logos not being allowed in BLD. It would be awesome if the latter of these also ended up being changed. I've always felt that if you need to resort to feeling the logo in order to get a success, your attempt is doomed to end up being insignificant anyway. And if feeling the logo does end up granting someone a PR or a podium, then well, good on them. For consistency's sake, I would prefer 4BLD logos to be allowed as well, but the argument against it seems very fair, so I can certainly get behind that.