Chree
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*raises hand* I would actually love to see how I rank amongst other people old enough to rent a car.
Proposal: Add Gender Sorting on the WCA Rankings
- Thread starter SirWaffle
- Start date
*raises hand* I would actually love to see how I rank amongst other people old enough to rent a car.
Stefan
Legend
Don't know. But gender and age are currently the only ones we *can* add (with the data we have).
Maybe eventually skin color if it turns out that that matters? I don't know why there's no 100 meters ranking for whites, for example, given that we suck so badly that I didn't find any in the top 35 (didn't look further):
http://www.iaaf.org/records/toplists/sprints/100-metres/outdoor/men/senior (click "Best by Athlete")
Surely a white runner ranking would encourage and motivate just like a female cuber ranking would?
Jaycee
Veteran
Not that I know of, but I see now that Lucas brought it up on the Github post.
I know you're joking, but it gets to point where we can't just say "what applies to this also applies to that so they should be treated the same"
rowan
Regular
The WCA doesn't collect race data, it would require categorizing everyone, including those who may not be cubing any longer.
Kirjava
Colourful
are female cubers marginalised? if so, how?
rowan
Regular
In that particular case I was referring to the general marginalization women face. I do think female cubers are underrepresented which I would attribute to a variety of sociopsychological factors, including their marginalization.
jeff081692
Veteran
I would actually like to see by age. I was reminded that for chess you can sort by age in the US http://www.uschess.org/component/option,com_top_players/Itemid,371/
They also have a section for women and I guess it's there for a reason.
Sorting by age also allows us to see who to look out for in the future. And it would motivate kids regardless of gender to also compete against others in their age group which is something I liked to do when I played chess since the top players were way out of my league.
They also have a section for women and I guess it's there for a reason.
Sorting by age also allows us to see who to look out for in the future. And it would motivate kids regardless of gender to also compete against others in their age group which is something I liked to do when I played chess since the top players were way out of my league.
Jaycee
Veteran
I see your point. However, I think the difference might be that top tier white runners don't care how they are relative to other white runners (I obviously can't claim to know this for sure), they care about how they are relative to everybody else in the world. Some female cubers, on the other hand, care about their placement relative to both other females and everybody else in the world.
This is getting to the point of speculation, which probably isn't good for this discussion, lol.
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Stefan
Legend
Read them again. Birth date is confidential, not public.
ChickenWrap
Veteran
That's the point everyone is missing. The rankings against other females would obviously not replace the current ranking system, it would simply give women a way to see how they stack up against other women as well as against the entire cubing population.
Simple.
rowan
Regular
Opps, sorry, you're right. I misread.
Then that's the best argument against it, cubers who disclosed their birth dates were told it would be kept confidential. If cubers wanted to change that, perhaps a separate thread polling people on this would be appropriate? And those who don't want their birth date shared could have the ability to opt out? Just to ensure that the collection and intention of the collection the data are consistent.
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IRNjuggle28
Veteran
This entire thing is silly. Someone can make a female record page on speedsolving wiki if they want, but getting the WCA to waste time on this is pointless. Unlike with sports that are strength based, where females have a distinct disadvantage, there is no reason to think that gender affects cubing ability.
cubingawsumness
Veteran
I just spent a good portion of my afternoon reading through this thread... My thoughts would just be repeating what has already been said, probably not very coherently, so I would just like to state that as a female cuber, I support the implementation of this "unofficial" ranking on the WCA website.
Jaycee
Veteran
Did you even read the thread? @IRNjuggle
Yeah, I didn't think so.
Yeah, I didn't think so.
Tim Major
Platinum Member
Obviously he didn't, but it just shows how the majority of people find it stupid.
I doubt this will be added to the WCA due to the backlash so I think I can comfortably ignore this thread.
All the girls in this thread who care, use the iwca site. I spoke to a female cuber a few months ago about this and she was part of the reason I disagree with this change.
She personally thought it was pointless to divide genders based on nothing suggesting one gender is superior.
rowan
Regular
One person posting definitely constitutes a majority. Also what backlash? A good majority of the people who even argued that it wasn't important even said they don't mind it being added and were just saying they don't get why. I think you and IRNjuggle are the only ones to actually say you actually have an opinion against this.
No.
That's also one female cuber's opinion. All of the ones on this thread either don't care about its addition either way or want it.
No one has suggested that any gender is superior. Not a single person. Separating genders does not suggest one is superior, either. It just expresses that they are different, which they are at least in terms of participation.
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cubingawsumness
Veteran
Change in my opinion: maybe the iWCA site is enough.
When I first started cubing, I didn't use the official WCA site, so adding this onto the official site wouldn't really encourage my participation in the first place. I think that this only really affects existing female cubers, and if any of them really want to see this list, they would be able to find the iWCA site (asking about it on here, searching). Like someone stated before, people seem to simultaneously want more and less attention for this kind of list - the reason they want it on the WCA website is to gain attention/access, but then it should also be "unofficial" and "just another statistic".
mDiPalma
Veteran
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Any request for an addition to the WCA website allowing the option to separate results by ANYTHING other than nation/continent is completely ludicrous and unfounded.
These current national segregations exist in parallel with the WCA Mission that requires national organizations to host competitions domestically.
Any other segregations (gender, birth month, initials) are not required by the WCA Mission/Goal/Spirit and should not be pursued at the expense of the "dues" of any World Cube Association members.
These current national segregations exist in parallel with the WCA Mission that requires national organizations to host competitions domestically.
Any other segregations (gender, birth month, initials) are not required by the WCA Mission/Goal/Spirit and should not be pursued at the expense of the "dues" of any World Cube Association members.
Dene
Premium Member
It's interesting because, I would say black people are considerably less represented in cubing than females (based on my experience). I know we don't have the data, but if we did I bet no one would argue for having it there.
BaMiao
Regular
I think everyone here is underestimating the benefit this ranking would provide to new female cubers. In fact, the benefit it would give to existing, already fast female cubers is secondary in my mind.
It is important for new, young cubers to have role models to use for inspiration. It is especially important when it comes to sustaining continued interest. For young girls, it is natural to look to other girls for inspiration, and at the moment they are few and far between. The ranking would show girls just getting into cubing that there are other girls out there with the same interest.
I think most people here know what it is like to walk in a room and instantly feel that they don't belong. Showing up to a competition and seeing 90% boys adds to the intimidation already inherent in the competition environment. I wouldn't be surprised if we could show that girls drop out of cubing faster than boys do (which seems to happen in chess). I think giving exposure to the fastest female cubers would help somewhat.
As for comparisons to things like race- there's no reason not to do something that can benefit people just because we don't also do something else that is superficially similar. There are many differences, besides, between gender and race that I don't feel like going into.
It is important for new, young cubers to have role models to use for inspiration. It is especially important when it comes to sustaining continued interest. For young girls, it is natural to look to other girls for inspiration, and at the moment they are few and far between. The ranking would show girls just getting into cubing that there are other girls out there with the same interest.
I think most people here know what it is like to walk in a room and instantly feel that they don't belong. Showing up to a competition and seeing 90% boys adds to the intimidation already inherent in the competition environment. I wouldn't be surprised if we could show that girls drop out of cubing faster than boys do (which seems to happen in chess). I think giving exposure to the fastest female cubers would help somewhat.
As for comparisons to things like race- there's no reason not to do something that can benefit people just because we don't also do something else that is superficially similar. There are many differences, besides, between gender and race that I don't feel like going into.
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