Older cubers discussions

I've known for AGES that my cross sucks, and I've been meaning to participate in this informal contest to inspire me to see just how shocking and improve it...

So (according to Speedpicker's systematic analysis) at 19 seconds my cross + 1 should be c.4.66 seconds on average (24.5% of solve). I just did my first EVER actual practice that doesn't involve solving a full cube, and did a session of cross + 1:

Best: 2.92
Worst: 9.14
Best 5: 4.76, 12: 5.09
Session avg: 5.73
Mean: 5.74

There were only 16 sub-5 times in the whole session, and on average, I'm taking almost 1.2 seconds more to solve cross + 1 than I should. The big shocker is that there was a 9, 2 8s and 4 7s in the average!

I'm going to time cross only tonight, as that's meant to be 12% (apparently), and see how that compares. Not sure whether it's the 1st pair or the cross that's holding me back, but if I can get cross + 1 down to c.4.5s then that should knock well over a second off my averages!

The thing that gets to me about the cross is that I can't even conceive of how a cross can be executed sub-1 on average. I have PLLs that I can probably sub-1 (at a stretch), definitely sub-2. I can understand how these can be executed in .7 seconds by faster cubers. Maybe it's poor finger-tricks, but I just can't visualise how it's possible to solve the cross in 1 second.

Anyway, I'm off to work, but my plan is:

1. BLD cross practice
2. Try to plan first pair
3. Watch some videos of fast cubers solving the cross, and see how the hell they can do it in less than a second!!!

If I can do this then I'm sub 16! :D
 
Hi, Marcel from Holland here

pipkiksass said:
I've known for AGES that my cross sucks, and I've been meaning to participate in this informal contest to inspire me to see just how shocking and improve it...

So (according to Speedpicker's systematic analysis) at 19 seconds my cross + 1 should be c.4.66 seconds on average (24.5% of solve). I just did my first EVER actual practice that doesn't involve solving a full cube, and did a session of cross + 1:

Best: 2.92
Worst: 9.14
Best 5: 4.76, 12: 5.09
Session avg: 5.73
Mean: 5.74

There were only 16 sub-5 times in the whole session, and on average, I'm taking almost 1.2 seconds more to solve cross + 1 than I should. The big shocker is that there was a 9, 2 8s and 4 7s in the average!

I'm going to time cross only tonight, as that's meant to be 12% (apparently), and see how that compares. Not sure whether it's the 1st pair or the cross that's holding me back, but if I can get cross + 1 down to c.4.5s then that should knock well over a second off my averages!

The thing that gets to me about the cross is that I can't even conceive of how a cross can be executed sub-1 on average. I have PLLs that I can probably sub-1 (at a stretch), definitely sub-2. I can understand how these can be executed in .7 seconds by faster cubers. Maybe it's poor finger-tricks, but I just can't visualise how it's possible to solve the cross in 1 second.

Anyway, I'm off to work, but my plan is:

1. BLD cross practice
2. Try to plan first pair
3. Watch some videos of fast cubers solving the cross, and see how the hell they can do it in less than a second!!!

If I can do this then I'm sub 16! :D
Click to expand...

It's just spamming TPS lol. My cross+1 is almost sub 2.

Just plan your first pair and spam TPS. One looking 2x2 solves can help you track pieces better.
 
pipkiksass said:
I just find cross turns awkward, maybe because of rotations and B moves etc.?
Click to expand...
Yeah I asked about this in the cross help thread a while back but I don't think anyone answered. I wonder if trying to do computer scrambles at speed might help with cross TPS, as I find scramble moves similarly "random".
 
mark49152 said:
Yeah I asked about this in the cross help thread a while back but I don't think anyone answered. I wonder if trying to do computer scrambles at speed might help with cross TPS, as I find scramble moves similarly "random".
Click to expand...

Maybe. A good way to incorporate this into solves might be to scramble during inspection, so to put pressure on you to finish quickly so you still have some inspection. Thrawst just did that in his latest video, solves with restrictions #6.
 
Hi, Marcel from Holland here

AmazingCuber said:
Maybe. A good way to incorporate this into solves might be to scramble during inspection, so to put pressure on you to finish quickly so you still have some inspection. Thrawst just did that in his latest video, solves with restrictions #6.
Click to expand...

lol that doesn't work for me, I tried it once. My scrambling is sub 5 so I can basically inspect normally XD
 
AmazingCuber said:
Maybe. A good way to incorporate this into solves might be to scramble during inspection, so to put pressure on you to finish quickly so you still have some inspection. Thrawst just did that in his latest video, solves with restrictions #6.
Click to expand...

I would probably just start by timing scrambles. Combining scrambles with solves would just obscure any progress made by practising scramble TPS. A scrambler that generates scrambles with consistent number of moves and shows an image of the scrambled state would be useful.
 
mark49152 said:
I would probably just start by timing scrambles. Combining scrambles with solves would just obscure any progress made by practising scramble TPS. A scrambler that generates scrambles with consistent number of moves and shows an image of the scrambled state would be useful.
Click to expand...

I love coming back to a discussion after a few hours away when you've been thinking about it yourself, and seeing how massively the thread has dovetailed from what you were thinking!!!

So Mark, I hate B moves. I'm not a massive fan of F moves, or even L moves, but I live with them. I'd rather use R U D where possible. One thing I've noticed in reconstructions is that a lot of fast cubers rotate during cross. What I was going to say is, rather than work on increasing my efficiency at performing moves that I don't like, I'll look at ways to avoid these moves where possible - i.e. start my cross from a different orientation, or substitute B turns for y R'.

But in my absence, this thread has really gone the other way!

I don't think I'll be timing scrambles. My intention is (in no particular order) to:

a) work on my cross efficiency by looking at reconstructions,
b) solve lots of BLD crosses to completely master planning my cross,
c) solve lots of cross + 1 to get rid of my transition pauses,
d) once my cross planning improves, look at how cube rotations can help make my cross more fingertrick-able,
e) do lots of slow solves.

i'd rather reach a stage where my cross planning is so good that I can avoid awkward turns than get better at awkward turns! To each their own though, I guess.
 
Wow. I just realized that the fact that I scramble really fast probably ties to me not hating awkward moves in my cross. That being said I rotate during cross sometimes depending on the situation.
 
Interesting results from my experiment today. I did an Ao50 just planning cross and then did Ao50 planning cross+1 (determining where a pair will end up without knowing orientation) and another Ao50 just cross...

Planning Cross... Single: 2.38 / Ao5: 3.56 / Ao12: 4.09 / Ao50: 4.35
Planning Cross+1... Single: 1.85 / Ao5: 2.95 / Ao12: 3.32 / Ao50: 3.97
Planning Cross... Single: 2.02 / Ao5: 3.09 / Ao12: 3.67 / Ao50: 4.21

I wonder if my base Ao50 of 3.99 was because I started off with practicing cross for 50 solves. Maybe I'll try that again tomorrow. My Cross+1 was a lot worse than I expected maybe because I'm not used to thinking the extra stuff so if cross is more moves I lose track of what I planned or something weird like that. Or it's like I become unfocused because I'm used to scanning the cube for the first pair but when I already planned where the pieces are going to end up... I dunno... I guess I felt disoriented in my solve. I wonder if this way I will have more trouble with the second pair...
 
pipkiksass said:
What I was going to say is, rather than work on increasing my efficiency at performing moves that I don't like, I'll look at ways to avoid these moves where possible - i.e. start my cross from a different orientation, or substitute B turns for y R'.
Click to expand...

That is excatly what I do. I always did cross on bottom and akward B and F moves. But after showing a OH video and asked people to comment on it, Sneaklyfox said to roate cube during cross to get more R and U moves.. That worked for me on OH but I also adapted it to my 2H cross solving. Yeah.. smart girl ;)
 
@Pip: Yeah I do all those things and agree they are more important. The scramble timing is not about trying to improve at awkward moves - it's about trying to improve TPS on sequences that are not in muscle memory. My cross is pretty efficient, but I turn too slow.
 
After doing a Ao100 PB this week I actually start to feel I might be true sub 22 (well sub 23 at least). Today I filmed an Ao12 with three warm up solves. I am getting more 18's and 17's. And when I look at this video all cross+1 are sub 5. So the dedicated cross+1 training might have to do with my progress. One cross+1 was maybe not sub 5 but sub 6 but strangely it was the fastest solve of the Ao12 :)

Cube: new MoYu LiYing (not sure what to say about the cube yet, I am getting amazing times but my Gan III 57 mm feels so much smoother)
Best average of 12: 21.96
3-14 - 24.48 19.63 22.77 (24.96) 21.65 22.30 19.84 22.08 23.65 (17.33) 24.86 18.30

1. 20.47 B2 L2 U2 F2 U' R2 U B2 D' R2 U L U2 L2 U R2 B L2 D' B2 D U2
2. 23.00 R2 U' B2 D2 U R2 D R2 B2 D L2 B R' B U2 R F D' F2 R' F2 U2
3. 24.48 D B2 R2 B2 D' F2 D R2 U F' U B2 L' D2 B' D2 U' R' F'
4. 19.63 D B2 L2 B2 L2 U F2 U B2 R2 F2 R' F2 D L2 U' L F L' U' F' U'
5. 22.77 U R2 U R2 U' F2 L2 D2 B2 F2 D F B2 D' R F L2 B U2 R D
6. 24.96 U2 B2 U F2 R2 U R2 B2 R2 B2 U B' U' F U2 R F2 R L2 B' L2
7. 21.65 U B2 F2 U' B2 D2 F2 L2 U F2 U2 R D B F' U' L2 U' B' F' U'
8. 22.30 L2 B2 D R2 U R2 B2 D B2 L2 F2 R' F' L' U' B2 D2 F D' F' D'
9. 19.84 U' B2 L2 F2 L2 D F2 D' B2 F2 D F' D' B' D L D U2 F' R2 U
10. 22.08 F2 D R2 D' B2 D' L2 U' F2 L2 U' R F2 D L' D F2 U' B R L'
11. 23.65 F2 L2 D' F2 L2 U B2 R2 D U' R2 F L U B R B' F' L' F' D U
12. 17.33 L2 B2 F2 U' R2 U L2 U B2 L2 U' R' D2 R' F2 D R2 L' D' B' R2 D'
13. 24.86 U R2 U' R2 F2 L2 F2 D' U2 F2 D L' F D2 U L2 D2 B' F' U F L'
14. 18.30 B2 U B2 U2 L2 U R2 U' F2 U' B2 R B' L' B D' U' R D2 B' D2 U2

[video=youtube_share;QmP0E8Mt4cU]http://youtu.be/QmP0E8Mt4cU[/video]
 
Did an ao50 of 25-move scrambles and got 16.40, so about 1.5 tps. I expected to suck but not that badly. I estimate I get about 1.8-2.0 tps on cross usually, and assume that the worse tps on scrambles is down to more awkward moves and fewer familiar short sequences. During the average I realized that the reason scrambling feels to me to be similar to cross is not just the non-muscle-memory execution, but also the frequent regrips.

Anyway, I don't know if I will bother doing this again but it was an interesting experiment. Any other suggestions for improving cross tps? (Not move efficiency or first pair transition, just tps.)
 
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