Tim Major
Platinum Member
And what use would that be?
[WCA Regulations 2014] Logos and Stickers
- Thread starter Kit Clement
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DrKorbin
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Simplifying your inspection. You know where green edges must go etc.
qqwref
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Sure, you could theoretically do this, but instead of steps 3 and 4 all you have to do is continue to count until you have your 3rd center solved (which should be like <5 extra slice turns). And then instead of doing (rU2)5 you can just do an extra slice turn right before you solve that 3rd center. I've done this before for fun - without the wing tracing of course - so I can tell you that having a logo on a center piece wouldn't really provide any advantage. It's just one extra (inefficient) way to keep track of slice moves.
Also, I'm kinda amused at the idea that someone could consistently check if a wing permutation is even or odd in under 15 seconds, but not keep track of how many slice turns they've done during the first few centers.
Hang on. You now have to insert your edges entirely without affecting the U center - that means no RUR' type inserts (unless you finish with a U') and no U turns to move stuff into position (again, unless you undo it afterwards). So this isn't even a situation where you can replace your center checking with an easier method - you literally have to waste moves for this to work. Clearly not worth it.
DrKorbin
Veteran
Yep, my bad.
cubernya
Premium Member
1) I would say keep them, even though they could be of advantage. I don't really think anybody of speed would be able to use the information that fast, though. I could make an argument both ways, however (and could easily be wrong, I am not that good at 2x2)
2) I say no, since let's be honest, if you are good enough to check it that fast, I think you deserve the advantage. You could track all 24 edges during inspection and count slices from there, what is the difference?
3) I don't see why not. Just allow them, then in the BLD section just put no logos allowed.
4) Why would we consider banning certain logos? As long as they are appropriate, it should be allowed.
5) Some of them. For example: my 2x2 has a logo on the corner, and it's basically the only way I can tell the difference. Same with my 3x3, since I have a unique logo.
2) I say no, since let's be honest, if you are good enough to check it that fast, I think you deserve the advantage. You could track all 24 edges during inspection and count slices from there, what is the difference?
3) I don't see why not. Just allow them, then in the BLD section just put no logos allowed.
4) Why would we consider banning certain logos? As long as they are appropriate, it should be allowed.
5) Some of them. For example: my 2x2 has a logo on the corner, and it's basically the only way I can tell the difference. Same with my 3x3, since I have a unique logo.
Yuxuibbs
Veteran
1. Keep logo on 2x2, most recognition is based on individual stickers, not entire pieces so knowing what the other 2 colors are based on the logo doesn't help that much.
Also, that would automatically make the new fangshi 2x2 illegal with no good way of making it legal since there is currently no good way of getting extra tiles
2. No, very hard to do it in a way that will actually give you better times since you have to count how many slice moves and stuff
3. Yes, just make the exception that no logos are allowed in BLD
4. Custom logos and logos that came with the cube should be allowed. 7/12 sides of my QJ megaminx have an engraved logo so there should be an exception for that.
5. Yes and yes. Especially at competitions, cube meets, and other times when there are a lot of cubes, it's much easier to identify my cubes because almost all of my cubes have my custom logo.
I think we have to address the fact that almost everyone is using the same cube in terms of type so in terms of mechanism and look of the cube, it's not really easy to determine individual people's cubes if all of them don't have logos and don't have custom color schemes. Logos (especially custom logos) make it much easier to identify people's cubes.
I'm pretty sure 3 or 4 of my cubes are not actually my cubes. I think people mistook my cube for their cube because it was the same type of cube and it looked the same as their cube (this was before I put custom logos on all my cubes). Most of the time, the differences between cubes is very minor so I didn't notice until weeks/months later that a mark that was supposed to be there was not there. I also almost lost my clock at a competition because there wasn't a logo on it and people mixed clocks together so no one really knew which clock was theirs (I'm still not sure whether or not the clock I have right now is actually my clock). I know all of this seems very minor but a lot of my puzzles are gifts from family members that I don't see very often and it is extremely difficult for me to obtain new puzzles.
Also, will a custom logo on top of the clock where there is a seam that holds the puzzle together be legal? Will adding a logo or something inside the clock be legal?
Also, that would automatically make the new fangshi 2x2 illegal with no good way of making it legal since there is currently no good way of getting extra tiles
2. No, very hard to do it in a way that will actually give you better times since you have to count how many slice moves and stuff
3. Yes, just make the exception that no logos are allowed in BLD
4. Custom logos and logos that came with the cube should be allowed. 7/12 sides of my QJ megaminx have an engraved logo so there should be an exception for that.
5. Yes and yes. Especially at competitions, cube meets, and other times when there are a lot of cubes, it's much easier to identify my cubes because almost all of my cubes have my custom logo.
I think we have to address the fact that almost everyone is using the same cube in terms of type so in terms of mechanism and look of the cube, it's not really easy to determine individual people's cubes if all of them don't have logos and don't have custom color schemes. Logos (especially custom logos) make it much easier to identify people's cubes.
I'm pretty sure 3 or 4 of my cubes are not actually my cubes. I think people mistook my cube for their cube because it was the same type of cube and it looked the same as their cube (this was before I put custom logos on all my cubes). Most of the time, the differences between cubes is very minor so I didn't notice until weeks/months later that a mark that was supposed to be there was not there. I also almost lost my clock at a competition because there wasn't a logo on it and people mixed clocks together so no one really knew which clock was theirs (I'm still not sure whether or not the clock I have right now is actually my clock). I know all of this seems very minor but a lot of my puzzles are gifts from family members that I don't see very often and it is extremely difficult for me to obtain new puzzles.
Also, will a custom logo on top of the clock where there is a seam that holds the puzzle together be legal? Will adding a logo or something inside the clock be legal?
Dene
Premium Member
We have general rules banning attempts to cheat so we don't need to regulate every possibility that some idiot might come up with. Perhaps it is unnecessary to have an extra regulation just for logos, but it kind of fits...
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Joël
Veteran
Isn't it possible to just put stickers on the whole cube? (I don't have the new fangshi 2x2, so I don't know if there is a way to feel the logo underneath the sticker, but if you can't feel it, then it shouldn't be a problem)
Kirjava
Colourful
Surely it's enough that you can determine *something* - doesn't have to be parity
KongShou
Veteran
Just saying that even right now after reading most of this thread I still don't know on which corner piece of my 2x2 my logo is.
kcl
Legend
Agreed, I kept mine on the anchor corner but I still never knew what it was XD
Kirjava
Colourful
What exactly are you trying to say with this? That it cannot be used to discern which corner it is from looking at one sticker?
Gordon
Veteran
Is it defined that the logo must be on a center piece? If I would put the logo on an corner on my 3x3 I would have the same 'advatage' as with a logo on a 2x2.
Edit: found the answer: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#3l
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lol i understand 2x2 but the reason for the 4x4 and 6x6 is so stupid, i would probably even allow people to use it so they can see if they get parity or not because predicting it is way slower than just doing the parity. i am a bit pissed that my 4x4 is not competition legal that z logo looks cool and i dont want to take it off just because i might be predicting parity.
KongShou
Veteran
No. I'm try to say that people don't usually try to cheat by using the logo. Myself for instance.
uberCuber
Legend
Most people don't try to cheat at all. So should we not bother with regulations to prevent cheating then?
KongShou
Veteran
I never said that.
uberCuber
Legend
I'm just trying to figure out what your point was. You said that people don't usually try to cheat with the logo. Why does that matter at all unless you are trying to say that we don't need a regulation to prevent cheating with the logo?
Lucas Garron
Premium Member
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DanpHan
Veteran
I can see logos definitely being an issue for blindsolving, so I think it would be acceptable in that aspect, as well as maybe 2x2.
I don't see it being necessary on 4x4, though. For 6x6 maybe, as you would be able to distinguish certain types of centers more easily, but a 4x4 only has 1 type of center, so there isn't really an advantage.
This is just my opinion. I'm no expert on this subject.
I don't see it being necessary on 4x4, though. For 6x6 maybe, as you would be able to distinguish certain types of centers more easily, but a 4x4 only has 1 type of center, so there isn't really an advantage.
This is just my opinion. I'm no expert on this subject.
