"Why not produce it like this in the first place?"

[elrog]

"Pre-modding" a cube is silly since some people wouldn't like the "mod" anyway. If everyone loved the modded version, we'd all be using modded cubes right now. I, for one, haven't used a modded 3x3 as a main in quite some time which suggests that modded cubes aren't inherently needed. Therefore, the rational choice is to drive production costs down and those who want a modded cube can do so themselves. There's no real reason to "pre-mod" a cube since that won't satisfy everyone anyway.

With certain mods that the majority of people want or use, I think it'd be worth their time to make a pre-modded mold. They may have to pay more, but they would be seen in a better light by the speedsolving community and would get more buyers.

I think it's better for them to send them out with a bit of extra bulk on them and let us take bits off them rather than minimising the plastic usage and ending up with a product with too little plastic. Especially seeing as people sand surfaces to remove bumps and stuff, whether this needs to be done or not is independent of how much plastic there is there

Larger pieces have more surface area, so would it not make sense to reinforce the piece by adding more plastic on the inside rather than the outside? In the spots that need plastic taken off, just add that plastic back to the inside of the piece in that area.

I'm not really sure as to what the reason is for companies not making pre-modded molds, but I'd guess that it is a combination of many things, some of which having been stated in this thread already.

 

[BaMiao]

Another aspect to keep in mind is that many cube makers are also trying to attract casual puzzle solvers, and not just the speedcubing community. I think the affects shengshou designs most of all.

One thing about the florian mod is that it can leave the cube somewhat unstable and feeling loose- not to mention the holes that can be seen from the exterior. A casual solver may not like these changes- especially one who is not familiar with proper tensioning/lubing.

And shengshou is already king in the speedcubing community. They have no incentive to change the design.

 

[MeshuggahX]

I don't really see the cost to be the problem in making the cubes "pre-modded".

I see people talking about making fillets och rounding corners would make it cost more, and sure...in many cases it does take more time to machine. But cost of that extra work would be very small, and you often want to avoid sharp edges due to the parts more easily breaking at those points. So you would probably already have small fillets on most of the edges. This applies to inner edges.

If you look at a piece it already is pretty round, making it a bit more round would be easy.

I work with this, and I have made electrodes to use in an EDM-machine to make molds.

 

[a small kitten]

Another explanation is that creating cubes (especially 3x3s) that can be modded creates a strong secondary market. It also supports businesses that offer modding/customization services. These business become more likely to buy the original cubes in bulk.

I don't think that's what cube manufacturers are going for, but it is a possibility. It makes me wonder how modding services will be affected if manufacturers actually started to produce pre-modded cubes.

 

[KongShou]

There is also a patent issue, when u change ur mold u also has to worry about other ppls patent, and rounding off corners ,centre and edge pieces(florian mod) is against dayan patent so shengshou wont dare do it. see below

There is like a fight between Shengshou and Dayan. Here is the link

Basically ss is saying that the small inner circle is not dayan's original design, and their patent mean nothing as they didnt actually invent it. if yongjun, guojia, dayan are all using it, why cant ss use it?
dayan dont like shengshou saying that and especially hate the suggestion that dayan is using someone elses idea. Mr.bao want ss to admit that small inner circle is dayans original design and is patented, and apologies that they mentioned dayan in the above list of ppl wos used orther ppls idea. ss still insist that dayan didnt come up with the small inner circle and refuse to do above. now theres a bunch of ppl in mf8 want them to sue each other.

yay

 

[Lagom]

I took a look at the Fangshi mechanism the other day and noticed a minor design flaw... I modded it and it turned out better. I thought about the whole thing and this flaw would be really hard to see without a prototype. So my thought is that they made a prototype of the design, either didn't realise the flaw or if they did; they figured it's good enough, and far too expensive to create a new prototype.
So my guess is that it's too expensive to create tons of prototypes to create the perfect cube. People will still buy it. Plus, if you build the perfect cube, why would someone buy the next cube they produce? Just my thoughts, no facts

 

[KongShou]

I took a look at the Fangshi mechanism the other day and noticed a minor design flaw... I modded it and it turned out better. I thought about the whole thing and this flaw would be really hard to see without a prototype. So my thought is that they made a prototype of the design, either didn't realise the flaw or if they did; they figured it's good enough, and far too expensive to create a new prototype.
So my guess is that it's too expensive to create tons of prototypes to create the perfect cube. People will still buy it. Plus, if you build the perfect cube, why would someone buy the next cube they produce? Just my thoughts, no facts

whats the minor design flaw and whats ur solution, ie mod?

 

[cyoubx]

I don't really see the cost to be the problem in making the cubes "pre-modded".

I see people talking about making fillets och rounding corners would make it cost more, and sure...in many cases it does take more time to machine. But cost of that extra work would be very small, and you often want to avoid sharp edges due to the parts more easily breaking at those points. So you would probably already have small fillets on most of the edges. This applies to inner edges.

If you look at a piece it already is pretty round, making it a bit more round would be easy.

I work with this, and I have made electrodes to use in an EDM-machine to make molds.

Um, I might be wrong but don't EDM electrodes have a high degree of symmetry? As in, they're either rectangular prisms or cylindrical shells. Both of these geometries are easy to machine in a mold. By the cost of additional curves, I think people are referring to concave structures, not extrusion ones.

For example, this would be a lot more expensive to machine than a regular cube:



Another point of consideration is design. Although a lot of pieces have already been filleted, rounding off a piece isn't necessarily just a larger fillet radius. For example, on the Florian mod, the curvature is more complex. Modeling that in CAD would involve more advanced surface modeling which isn't inherently a skill all puzzle designers know.

Lastly, it's expensive to create prototypes again and again. It's not so much that they don't want to make it perfect the first time. Rather, it's probably because they didn't notice the flaws initially. Instead of rectifying the issues right away, why not sell what they have then use the profit for a future revision? Seems to me that's what ShengShou has done with their 4x4!

In all, I think there are too many factors for us to possibly analyze and it's probably a different reason for each designer/manufacturer. Mods aren't needed for every (speed)cuber so there is really no incentive for designers to "pre-mod" cubes for those who want them. The market is so small that it's probably not worth tapping into.

 

[Lagom]

whats the minor design flaw and whats ur solution, ie mod?

It's a mod that fixes the lockup issues. Funs puzzle has been too influenced by the modding world, creating too rounded edges
I will upload a guide soon!

 

[KongShou]

It's a mod that fixes the lockup issues. Funs puzzle has been too influenced by the modding world, creating too rounded edges
I will upload a guide soon!

looking forward to it!

 

[MeshuggahX]

Um, I might be wrong but don't EDM electrodes have a high degree of symmetry? As in, they're either rectangular prisms or cylindrical shells. Both of these geometries are easy to machine in a mold. By the cost of additional curves, I think people are referring to concave structures, not extrusion ones.

Actually no, electrodes doesn't necessarily have a high degree of symmetry. They come in all size and shapes, and to make some molds you have to make several electrodes because it's not possible to machine the electrode in one piece.

Machining concave surfaces instead of flat surfaces (horisontal) obviously takes less time, no argue there. But it isn't really a problem, not that would motivate a worse end result. (Referring to your picture).

Some pictures of electrodes I googled.
https://d2t1xqejof9utc.cloudfront.net/screenshots/pics/29dc48985359496052c2b51a97fe0224/medium.jpg
http://www.coidan.com/images/uploads/edm_graphite_electrodes1_1009.gif

Another point of consideration is design. Although a lot of pieces have already been filleted, rounding off a piece isn't necessarily just a larger fillet radius. For example, on the Florian mod, the curvature is more complex. Modeling that in CAD would involve more advanced surface modeling which isn't inherently a skill all puzzle designers know.

That's true, perhaps that's the case or at least part of it.

Lastly, it's expensive to create prototypes again and again. It's not so much that they don't want to make it perfect the first time. Rather, it's probably because they didn't notice the flaws initially. Instead of rectifying the issues right away, why not sell what they have then use the profit for a future revision? Seems to me that's what ShengShou has done with their 4x4!

In all, I think there are too many factors for us to possibly analyze and it's probably a different reason for each designer/manufacturer. Mods aren't needed for every (speed)cuber so there is really no incentive for designers to "pre-mod" cubes for those who want them. The market is so small that it's probably not worth tapping into.

I think this is the most probable answer. If you only would make prototypes and not release any products, no money would be made to improve your prototype/product.

 

[CubezUBR]

Why dont dayan and other speedcube compainies reallise that we do the 48pt edge nod and round of the corner stocks on our cubes so they are better, and why dont they have them pre modded. why do ss 4x4's not come pre consta+florrian modded? it makes me wonder

 

[CountMe123]

Shengshou has made a pre-modded version of the shengshou wind though

 

[sneaklyfox]

If SS came out with a pre-modded 4x4 then I would buy it now. I don't have the time to do much modding. 3x3 like 48-PEM is ok because it's easy. I don't want to spend a lot of money for someone else to mod the cube for me either.