Derren Brown Cheating Too! :(

[BillyRain]

So my friend informs me that on his latest tour, Derren is doing fake BLD.

Apparently he is letting the audience scramble a 4x4, and then he is matching a solved cube to the same scramble whilst blindfolded in approximately one minute.

I know that misdirection and trickery is his confessed way of working, but this is just adding to the list of people misinforming the public about genuine blind solving.

Get ready for the "Yeah well Derren Brown can do that in under a minute, you suck" comments after public attempts...

Sad times for cubing really.. too much cheating going on at the moment.

 

[KongShou]

People will know he is cheating and therefore not real bld. I don't see any problem

 

[BillyRain]

May I ask how you think the general public will know he is cheating? The general public.... that knows nothing about cubing?

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

Well I would expect that everyone who sees anything that Darren does will assume its not legit anyway, because that's just how he works. It's like when you get magicians throwing a cube in the air and catching it solved, you don't get comments that "O this guy can do it by throwing it in the air you suck".
When people know it's fake, then you won't get the comments about it.

Also, there isn't that much cheating going on at all.... The only thing I can think of if at all is 4.41, the rest is skewed because of the media anyway, so it doesn't really count. I mean, if the TV show want you to do a BLD solve, theres a likelihood that you'll set it up so that people can see you get the success, which is all they care about. Saying "O I failed but it was close" doesn't cut it for the media.

 

[KongShou]

Well I would expect that everyone who sees anything that Darren does will assume its not legit anyway, because that's just how he works. It's like when you get magicians throwing a cube in the air and catching it solved, you don't get comments that "O this guy can do it by throwing it in the air you suck".
When people know it's fake, then you won't get the comments about it.

Also, there isn't that much cheating going on at all.... The only thing I can think of if at all is 4.41, the rest is skewed because of the media anyway, so it doesn't really count. I mean, if the TV show want you to do a BLD solve, theres a likelihood that you'll set it up so that people can see you get the success, which is all they care about. Saying "O I failed but it was close" doesn't cut it for the media.

I completely agree, exactly my point but explained better than I can.

 

[BillyRain]

Oh ****in forget it then and delete the thread if it doesn't matter.

 

[~Adam~]

Anyone who thinks what Derren Brown does is real isn't worth caring about IMO.
Sorry Billy.

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

Oh ****in forget it then and delete the thread if it doesn't matter.

There's no need for that... :|

On a related note, can you list all the people that you consider are cheating or w/e. I've seen a few people mention it a couple of times now and I must be out of the loop or smt because I can only think of the 4.41 for now.

 

[BillyRain]

Missing the point.

As I said, Derren admits to being a trickster. Everybody knows that and he isnt trying to fool anyone into thinking he is genuine.

However, that won't stop people being much less impressed by a genuine solve after seeing him do it so quickly, weather or not in their heads they know if it was real or not.

There's no need for that... :|

On a related note, can you list all the people that you consider are cheating or w/e. I've seen a few people mention it a couple of times now and I must be out of the loop or smt because I can only think of the 4.41 for now.

I won't bother Chris because you most likely have a armory of cleverly prepared explanations for each case which will make me look like the lesser being *rolls eyes*

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

Missing the point.

As I said, Derren admits to being a trickster. Everybody knows that and he isnt trying to fool anyone into thinking he is genuine.

However, that won't stop people being much less impressed by a genuine solve after seeing him do it so quickly, weather or not in their heads they know if it was real or not.

Yeah of course, but then if you're doing solves in public purposely to impress people, there's always going to be that one guy that says "My friend/brother/workmate/etc can do that in 5 seconds behind his back, you suck lololol"

Perhaps the difference is that although you may be slower, at least your solve is legit, and that's fairly easy to prove against Derren.
Also, I know of a couple of people who have seen him live, and whenever I ask about it, they refuse to tell me anything, saying that you should see it for yourself and that it doesn't really mean much when taken out of context, so perhaps people won't mention it anyway.

 

[~Adam~]

However, that won't stop people being much less impressed by a genuine solve after seeing him do it so quickly, weather or not in their heads they know if it was real or not.

That may be the case and all I can suggest is, try not to let it bother you too much.

The chances are that anyone who sees you solve 4BLD will think that it is either a lot harder or a lot easier than it really is.

 

[scottishcuber]

There's no need for that... :|

On a related note, can you list all the people that you consider are cheating or w/e. I've seen a few people mention it a couple of times now and I must be out of the loop or smt because I can only think of the 4.41 for now.

Recently, the other scandal is from Maxim Chechnev on Ukraine's Got Talent. Thread:

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?42170-Maxim-Chechnev-on-quot-Ukraine-s-Got-Talent-quot-show-Final&p=857936#post857936

 

[AvGalen]

I know that misdirection and trickery is his confessed way of working, but this is just adding to the list of people misinforming the public about genuine blind solving.

No, as you say yourself his confessed way of working is misdirection and trickerty. So he is not misinforming the public about genuine blind solving. You said everything in that 1 sentence yourself already

on his latest tour, Derren is doing fake BLD. Apparently he is letting the audience scramble a 4x4, and then he is matching a solved cube to the same scramble whilst blindfolded in approximately one minute.

That is a really good trick. I am very curious as to how he would be doing this. I can only think of the following 2 scenarios that basically come down to the same thing:
1a) A few random people in the audience scramble it, then at last somebody "who is in on it" swaps the already randomly scrambled cube for a known scrambled cube, maybe applies some more known moves to it and brings this to the podium
1b) OR the truely randomly scrambled cube is brought to the podium and then swapped for a randomly scrambled cube
2) AND He applies a prepared set of moves to match a solved cube to the prepared scrambled cube

Does anyone have another idea?

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

Does anyone have another idea?

I seem to recall a program in which he shared details of one of his shows, and for this kind of trick he had a spotter, so I wonder if the cube is imaged somehow by a helper, and then a solution is generated using an off-stage computer, and he's then talked through the moves.

 

[Ollie]

Derren Brown has always been a crazy mnemonist and autodicadent, so he's more than capable of doing it for real, if not the 4x4x4 then a 3x3x3 or a 2x2x2 at the very least. But for a stage show with time restrictions, yeah... it won't be the real thing.

I'm not bothered how he does it unless he claims to use a memory technique similar to ours. He does his research as well so he may acknowledge us. Who knows

 

[AvGalen]

I seem to recall a program in which he shared details of one of his shows, and for this kind of trick he had a spotter, so I wonder if the cube is imaged somehow by a helper, and then a solution is generated using an off-stage computer, and he's then talked through the moves.

Sounds too complicated and prone to error. Please try it yourself. Use a camera to take a picture of the 6 sides of the cube from a bit of distance, find a (semi)optimal solver and generate a scramble for this scramble, then ask someone to read that scramble to you move by move and apply it. All within a minute or so of course.

Derren Brown has always been a crazy mnemonist and autodicadent, so he's more than capable of doing it for real, if not the 4x4x4 then a 3x3x3 or a 2x2x2 at the very least. But for a stage show with time restrictions, yeah... it won't be the real thing.

I am quite fast at match-the-scramble, but I cannot always do a sub 1 for 333. There is of course no way I could do a 444-match-the-scramble in 1 minute and neither could he.

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

Sounds too complicated and prone to error. Please try it yourself. Use a camera to take a picture of the 6 sides of the cube from a bit of distance, find a (semi)optimal solver and generate a scramble for this scramble, then ask someone to read that scramble to you move by move and apply it. All within a minute or so of course.

It also depends on how the act works, if he is allowed some time to look at the cube beforehand, that could possibly be long enough for the scramble to be generated, and then if he knew at least some form of notation, it could then be read out in less than a minute once he has placed on the blindfold.

I suppose we'd get more of a chance of figuring it out if there is a video somewhere, but I doubt that one exists.

 

[Ollie]

I am quite fast at match-the-scramble, but I cannot always do a sub 1 for 333. There is of course no way I could do a 444-match-the-scramble in 1 minute and neither could he.

Sorry, I wasn't being clear, I meant regular BLD

I wonder if the secret in how he does it lies in the fact that he's doing a match-the-scramble solve rather than solving it from a random position? It's probably a good idea for misdirection (in magic terms)

 

[labirint]

Recently, the other scandal is from Maxim Chechnev on Ukraine's Got Talent. Thread:

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?42170-Maxim-Chechnev-on-quot-Ukraine-s-Got-Talent-quot-show-Final&p=857936#post857936

Hey, guys! Could you explain me the following:

Why did you create such a big scandal from "Ukraine's got talents", some of you even suggested banning Maxim on WCA, but here most of you justify Derren and discuss about "how tricky he is that he managed to cheat"?

 

[AvGalen]

Hey, guys! Could you explain me the following:

Why did you create such a big scandal from "Ukraine's got talents", some of you even suggested banning Maxim on WCA, but here most of you justify Derren and discuss about "how tricky he is that he managed to cheat"?

Derren Brown doesn't pretend to have talent (for cubing). Everyone knows he is putting on a show.
Maxim is the equivalent of a singer on a talent show that is playbacking/lipsynching.