[Unofficial] Maxim Chechnev won the semi-final of the show Ukraine's Got Talent

[AvGalen]

I watched the solution part of the video a bit more in detail, and it doesn't even look like he learned a random scramble. It looks like all he is doing is basically R U' R' U on different layers. I would actually bet that all 20 cubes are either identical (just scrambled from a different direction/color) or have exactly the same solution after a few moves that are related to the number on them (for example (M' U)*7 for the 7th cube and (M' U)*20 for the 20th cube. This has nothing to do with talent and is indeed just like a magic show where the talent is to trick the audience

 

[That70sShowDude]

Whether he cheated or not, every single noncuber who saw that video now thinks that this guy can do 7BLD and that 7BLD execution can be done in about 2 minutes. It's BS like this that is always harmful to the BLD community. What happens when they are not at all impressed by actual 7BLD solvers like Mike Hughey because they are slower than him? I'm not saying that I disagree with his choice to do this because I would probably do the same thing if I had to impress a bunch of non-cubers, but it is certainly harmful and a little bit embarrassing.

This is completely off-topic, but this is exactly how I feel about geared powerlifting. They have different divisions. Raw is done with no special equipment, just your body and the weight. You can use minor things like a belt to protect you from injury, but it doesn't help you lift more. Geared powerlifting can include shirts, suits, wraps, etc. that can help people lift a significant amount more weight. Hundreds of pounds. Non-lifters have no idea what this stuff can actually do. Additionally, it's hard to notice when guys have or don't have something on in a video. The guys that lift geared NEVER specify that it's not raw, whether it be a video or via text. They treat their geared lift as if it's superior to another guys slightly weaker raw lift. Then if they do perform a raw lift, they always specify it. It should be the other way around. Geared powerlifting will always come off as more impressive. People think that guys can bench well over 1,000lbs when the REAL world record is 715lbs. I don't even know why it exists. /rant

 

[qqwref]

@That70sShowDude: Agreed. Considering how much additional power the gear can add, it's crazy that anyone considers geared lifts the *default*. I bet in 100 years powerlifters will be arguing that powered exoskeletons are the way lifting ought to be done.


@RB: It's totally different from someone claiming to be a magician and then making an egg turn into a chicken. This is a guy, who has previously done real legitimate speed and blindfolded solves on stage (not to mention in competition), who claims to be a speedcuber, and who is now doing a clearly cheated solve live on stage. He's not performing a magic show, he is acting like this is real, and put next to the other skillful things he's done I can easily see how a noncuber could get convinced by this.

Consider that this video/show could get millions of views, many of them from people who don't understand the language. How many of those will think, this Maxim guy did a 7bld in two minutes, so why should I care about all these other noobs who are taking 20 minutes to execute it...?

 

[That70sShowDude]

@That70sShowDude: Agreed. Considering how much additional power the gear can add, it's crazy that anyone considers geared lifts the *default*. I bet in 100 years powerlifters will be arguing that powered exoskeletons are the way lifting ought to be done.

I wouldn't be surprised, haha.

 

[timeless]

video got removed?

 

[Noahaha]

I agree with Chris for the most part. Still leaves a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth. It's not just about the "This one guy did like a 15 by 15 blindfolded in 30 seconds" but also about what happens if people find out he memorized the scramble. Suddenly blindfolded solving is impossible and fake and the only way to do it is if you know the scramble beforehand. Maybe I'm still overreacting, but one of my least favorite things about the general perception of speedcubing is the fact that 9 out of 10 people think it's either so easy it's trivial or so hard you have to be a genius.

As I said before, I don't blame Maxim in the slightest for his decision, since a lot of money is on the line and it is definitely a moral grey area since he as far as I can tell he never explicitly said he was doing a real blindsolve, but I'd rather see another win like Simon's XD

video got removed?

A different version was posted a few pages back. That should probably be added to the OP.

 

[AvGalen]

If he had memorised 20 scrambles that would be quite impressive (although still misleading), but as I wrote before it seems like he set up 20 scrambles with an easy pattern and I suspect he actually only had 1 such pattern with 20 simple variations or even just cube rotations.

Could the Original Poster or Maxim actually comment on this?

 

[RB]

I have one more "different angle" to share.

What if somebody from blindfolders would decide to tell the world how cool 7x7BLD is?

He has finally done it, he realized how amazing it is, as feelings are similar to finishing a marathon in a first time, and finally, he decides world should know how amazing 7x7BLD is!

But how?
1. Most of people in the world don't have any idea that the Rubik's Cube can be solved blindfolded.
2. Most of people in the world don't have any idea that the 7x7 Cube exists.
as a result,
3. They absolutely don't have an idea that 7x7BLD exists, and if is does "So what?".

How would try to deliver to people an idea about existence of 7x7BLD?

Let's say, there was no this show, and we just develop a plan how to do it.

Starting thinking about it, we may come to the next components:
1. It is great if the audience will be big
2. It is good to show them that Rubik's Cube can be solved blindfolded,
3. 7x7 cube should also be demonstrated,
4. It is not a bad idea to mention about complexity of this cube
5. 7x7 should be solved blindfolded.
6. It is not a bad idea to mention about using something irregular (=trick) for blindsolving

It would be a great plan, which seems reasonable.

And let's compare this with what Maxim has done? Almost identical!
It means in terms of advertising/promotion of blindfold solving, this video also may place a big role.

May be the only thing, in order to be 100% honest, should have been mentioned at the end of the performance, which is something like "Oh, you know, actually solving 7x7 blindfolded takes 1.5hrs for memorizing, and 1hr for solving, which can be boring, and as I mentioned it was not a real solving, but a trick with reversing scramble just to show that 7x7BLD is possible". That could be fair, but this would definitely ruined the show. Spectators were astonished, happy, entertained, and that was not definitely a good moment to mention about the complexity. I hope, after the Final this will be done by him or somebody else.

Overall, a lot of prons and cons here. But earlier or later this would have happened, as everything is developing and not staying at the same place. If not Maxim, somebody else would do it, and probably would stepped on the same rakes. This would happened anyway, it just happened now

 

[AvGalen]

This is not a show to promote cubing, it is a show to show your talent.
He only showed he is a talented cheater with this part of the performance and it was not necessary at all.
Also, you again claim that "reversing scramble just to show that 7x7BLD is possible". Reversing a scramble doesn't show that 7x7x7 blind is possible at all. It would be just like a shot putter making a 200 meter "throw" with a remote controlled flying ball.

Maxim didn't put on this show to promote cubing, he did it to get fame and money for himself. Please stop making him sound like a hero. He obviously has quite some talent and should have shown that, not this.

 

[Rubiks560]

May be the only thing, in order to be 100% honest, should have been mentioned at the end of the performance, which is something like "Oh, you know, actually solving 7x7 blindfolded takes 1.5hrs for memorizing, and 1hr for solving, which can be boring, and as I mentioned it was not a real solving, but a trick with reversing scramble just to show that 7x7BLD is possible". That could be fair, but this would definitely ruined the show. Spectators were astonished, happy, entertained, and that was not definitely a good moment to mention about the complexity. I hope, after the Final this will be done by him or somebody else.

Do you honestly think he is going to admit to cheating? No. He isn't going to.

 

[RB]

This is not a show to promote cubing, it is a show to show your talent.

Even though it's true, the "side effect" in promoting cubing was huge in Russian-speaking countries.
I just see on their forums 5-10 new people every day who came to ask "How to solve" or to say "I solved it in the first time in my life!!!" within last few days, and most of them say "Starting interesting in cubing after watching show with Maxim".

Maxim didn't put on this show to promote cubing, he did it to get fame and money for himself.

I don't see anything bad if in this year the contest will be won by a speedcuber, but not by a singer, a dancer or a magician.

Please stop making him sound like a hero. He obviously has quite some talent and should have shown that, not this.

I did not intend to make a hero from him, sorry if it looked like. There was definitely nothing extraordinary in his performance in terms of speedcubing.

I just defend him from extreme criticizing, because this can ruin his ability to create something new in the rest of his life.

I saw a lot of examples in the real life, when criticizing of a crowd (even though very respectful) transformed young people from bright talents to a grey mediocre. Every time it was sad to see those transformations, and that people could do so much more, but instead they started "eating borsht" until a liver is over. And I also saw a lot of good examples, who could stay himself (with some corrections), who’s done a lot in later years, and that's why I try to provide support to bright young people when they are under criticizing after doing something new. Nothing related to making heroes, just provide support, I apologize if could be perceived differently

Even though this idea with 7x7 became at the end not as great as it looked from the beginning, there were a lot of efforts and creativity involved in the preparation to the show. Tremendous job was done. Has anyone recognized this hard work? I'm glad that at least few people did that.

Sometimes the talent is not only ability to do one particular thing, but to combine few things together.

anyway, thank you Arnaud for you comment, it helped to get better understanding of some things.

Do you honestly think he is going to admit to cheating? No. He isn't going to.

First of all, please don't think that Maxim is a beast; he is a very nice person in real life.

Regarding telling to audience that 7x7 is complicated, it can be done in different ways, both by him and by somebody else.

For example, the first idea that has come on top of the head: somebody can make a youtube video "7x7BLD solve (Fake)", where he/she can solve the cube within half of the minute, and then to say that it was not real, solve of 7x7 in less than an hour is cheating.
Watchers will definitely start distinguishing after that what is real, what is not.

(Math: of 212 pieces let's say 12 on their positions after scramble, 200 to solve.
Let's say solving of each piece is 8 moves, or 1600 moves to do in total.
Let's say 1 second per move (as the cube is 7x7), and solving is blindfolded. It finally gives 1,600 seconds or 26.5 minutes if the speedcuber is almost as a robot who doesn't need pauses for thinking.
But in real life, I believe, execution is 2-3 times longer, or more than an hour.)

This is a first and a raw idea how to prevent people thinking that 7x7BLD is simple.

There are definitely other ways to achieve that goal, if it is necessary

======================
I have one last question to everyone:

Let's say in the Final round Maxim will be solving Rubik's Clock (or any other puzzle) blindfolded again, and let's say again with the reversing scramble or with 10 rehearsals with the same scramble, because there no chance to make an error on a stage. (you should understand what is now required from him by TV)

What would you like to hear from him during the performance in order to have new performance looked acceptable?
Let's say:
- "Please don't consider this 1-minute solve as a benchmark, with WCA-scrambles it takes longer", or
- "There will be a trick that professionals will easily recognize how it's done, but it's still spectacular"
or what else?

Errors are happening with everyone who does something new, and it always matters what to do to not repeat them in the future

 

[PeelingStickers]

He shouldn't cheat. Full stop. Anyone could do that else.

By doing that he is exactly the opposite of what the show is looking for. If the scramble pattern is similiar to what AVG says it is (RUR'U' tricks), then some of those new cubers you mention could perform that "7BLD" he did on stage with the same time prepping.

 

[cmhardw]

I think we in the speedcubing have a bias towards blindfold cubing meaning something like "WCA competitive blindfolded cubing" or:
1) The scramble is appropriately difficult, and unknown to the solver before the start if the solve
2) The solver uses feats of mental training to memorize, then solve the cube
3) The solving phase of the cube is done without looking

When "blindfolded cubing" can really be considered a larger category of just:
1) Solving an unsolved cube without looking

Based on this second definition, Maxim absolutely executed a blindfolded solve during his TV performance.

--------------------------------

Let me give you an example. Shortly after I started the Unofficial World Records Page, they got to be larger than I was able to manage on my own. Ron van Bruchem then took them over, with me assisting for a time before he took them over completely due to my lack of time and technical skill in managing them efficiently.

During the time that Ron was running them with me assisting, we had someone send in 3x3 single times in sub-10 seconds. This was back when the unofficial world records were around 15-16 seconds for the average of 12 and 10-11 seconds for the 3x3 single. In short, this guy's times were easily twice as fast as the UWR at that time.

So naturally Ron was very suspicious and inquired more information from the guy.

It turns out that this person, whose name I don't remember to be honest but Ron can verify this if you ask him, had calculated what he found to be "a very difficult" scramble on the cube. By this he meant a poossible arrangement of the cubies that he considered to be very far away from solved. He then would solve this same exact scramble, over and over, and time himself. He was eventually able to solve this specific scramble in well under 10 seconds, and he submitted it to our list.

When Ron explained to him that the UWR list has people use random scrambles previously unknown to the solver before the start of the solve, the guy complained that this allowed for the possibility of "easy" scrambles being solved by the cuber, and thus he considered our method of solving "cheating". Needless to say we did not honor his time as the UWR, and he did not join the cubing community as far as I know. He viewed what we did as "cheating".

--------------------------------

I use this as an example to say that, of course most WCA cubers (who view blindfolded cubing as meaning "WCA friendly competitive blindfolded cubing" or similar enough to WCA cubing) would view what Maxim did on the show with his 7x7BLD solve as "cheating". From the perspective of "WCA friendly blindfolded cubing" it is absolutely cheating, as he had prior knowledge of the scramble before the solve.

RB and I are viewing blindfolded cubing from the viewpoint that "an unsolved cube was solved without looking at it". Viewing Maxim's performance from this perspective he put on an AMAZING show, and deserves much credit for what he did!

My experience with that guy from the unofficial world records list who bashed our entire method of timing speedsolves for being "cheating" because we allow for the possibility of "easy solves" really changed my perspective on how people can view the same thing from very different mindsets. I feel this is why I don't get upset that Maxim did not follow "WCA friendly" blindfolded standards in his on stage performance. Who is to say that "blindfolded cubing" does not mean "an unsolved cube was solved without looking at it" ? In a WCA competition of course blindfolded cubing should not be viewed that way, but why can't it be viewed that way in other areas, say on TV talent shows?

 

[jayefbe]

The public has an expectation when it comes to cubing. That expectation is that the cubes have been randomly scrambled and will be solved without using knowledge of the scramble. Competing in a talent show, taking advantage of those expectations, and intentionally doing something else without informing the audience of this is defrauding them. It is cheating.

The public expectation at a magic show is that there is a trick. People KNOW they are being tricked. Using that as an argument to defend what Maxim did is ridiculous. Stop with the increasingly insane rationalizations, RB.

He cheated. He intentionally misrepresented what he did to make it appear more impressive than it actually was. There's no argument against that. It is a fact. Whether or not you think that is ok depends on your own morals. Some people think it's ok to cheat when there's a lot of money on the line. I don't.

 

[qqwref]

No, RB's argument is invalid no matter how many words he writes. Chris, the guy you were talking to about the unofficial records didn't have a valid "different mindset" that made him think doing the same scramble over and over again was correct and that random scrambles were unfair. He was just trying to come up with an excuse to justify why he thought he should be considered the best in the world. That is to say, he just wanted attention, to be respected by an entire community, and would happily lie to himself and you in the hope of getting it. It's the same thing causing kids on youtube to post obviously fake speed or BLD solves and then deny everything - until it's obvious they have no chance of defending against the proof. Do you think maybe Matyas's blindfolded solves should be considered unofficially acceptable, and shown to newcomers as examples of what a blindfolded solve is, because, after all, he *was* wearing a blindfold while he did them?

In reality, if you break the rules everyone else is following, in a way that gives you a huge advantage, and you act like you are still doing the same event, you are definitely cheating. You are deceiving others for your own gain - it is a selfish act which denigrates and diminishes the work of everyone else in order to elevate yourself. If you want to do a totally different event which happens to still involve not looking at the cube, you can specify that - what Maxim did was fine by itself as long as it is labeled as the "blindly and correctly execute a couple of dozen moves on the 7x7x7" event. That would not be cheating at all. However, acting like it is the "7x7x7 BLD" event is dishonest, immoral, and definitely NOT okay.

Oh, and RB - the 7bld UWR is about 37 minutes, including about 20 minutes of memorization.

 

[cmhardw]

The public has an expectation when it comes to cubing. That expectation is that the cubes have been randomly scrambled and will be solved without using knowledge of the scramble. Competing in a talent show, taking advantage of those expectations, and intentionally doing something else without informing the audience of this is defrauding them. It is cheating.

I agree that a significantly large portion of the public would want a blindsolve to be done where the solver does not have previous knowledge of the scramble. I'm thinking of non-cubers who scramble for your speedsolve who say "don't look!"

So yes, I would agree that Maxim did defraud the audience as you say. He did something contrary to their expectations, taking advantage of their expectations for maximum effect for the performance.

The public expectation at a magic show is that there is a trick. People KNOW they are being tricked. Using that as an argument to defend what Maxim did is ridiculous. Stop with the increasingly insane rationalizations, RB.

I disagree. This is the expectation for adults who attend magic shows, not children who are unaware that this is not actually magic. Please see my earlier reply to Kirjava in this same thread.

He cheated. He intentionally misrepresented what he did to make it appear more impressive than it actually was. There's no argument against that. It is a fact.

Agreed.

Whether or not you think that is ok depends on your own morals. Some people think it's ok to cheat when there's a lot of money on the line. I don't.

As I said in my previous reply to Kirjava, how do you know that the producers of the show didn't put Maxim up to this? How do you know that they didn't ask him to "rig" his solves somehow? From personal experience, and from the experience of Dror Vomberg, this does happen. Some producers DO ask this of cubers going on TV.

If the producers did ask Maxim to rig his solves, or were at least aware of it, then I am ok with what Maxim did. He followed the rules of the show, so any moral wrong is really coming from the show's producers and they deserve your scorn.

If the producers believed that Maxim was executing a true to form 7x7x7 blindsolve under essentially WCA competion rules (which I seriously doubt is the case) then he not only cheated the audience, he cheated the show and I consider that absolutely to be cheating if he wins the top prize.

 

[AvGalen]

Hello RB,

Thank you for continuing to stick up for your friend/pupil. That takes a lot of effort and respect. But please understand that jayefbe is basically hitting the nail on the head. People expect a really randomly scrambled cube and if that is not provided we will always consider it cheating. I have been to an illusionist show and was blown away by the cubetricks that they performed there. Of course I know that cheating was involved (WCA rules not followed) but in that setting I never expected the illusionist to follow that rules so it was really enjoyable.

Maxim didn't put on this show to promote cubing, he did it to get fame and money for himself.

I don't see anything bad if in this year the contest will be won by a speedcuber, but not by a singer, a dancer or a magician.

Singers are expected to really sing, dancers are expected to really dance. What if a singer would be playbacking/autotuning or if the dancer had danced that dance 100 times earlier that day and a video of the best performance was shown? Apparently you think it is okay for Maxim to cheat because he is a speedcuber???

Let's say in the Final round Maxim will be solving Rubik's Clock (or any other puzzle) blindfolded again, and let's say again with the reversing scramble or with 10 rehearsals with the same scramble, because there no chance to make an error on a stage. (you should understand what is now required from him by TV)

If he cannot do it without error he doesn't deserve to win the talentshow. Dancers have a risk of falling, singers have a risk of becoming nervous and forgetting their lines or missing an important note.

If he goes on stage as a speedcuber he should do a real solve. If he goes on stage as a performer he can do whatever he wants.
Of course I understand how much he wants to win, but he shouldn't pretend he can do something that he cannot do on a talentshow

 

[5BLD]

The argument that it inspires new cubers to cube is pretty horrible to me. The feat was definitely more attention seeking than trying to introduce speedcubing to people and the whole layout will probably give people the wrong idea to what cubing is about.

 

[RB]

Oh, and RB - the 7bld UWR is about 37 minutes, including about 20 minutes of memorization.

Wow, cool! Thanks, that is really great time.
I actually didn’t have any idea how long it takes, but it seems my calculations were pretty close. If by calculations a super-robot-man could do it within 27 minutes, it amazing to see how close the real result can be.

Thank you for continuing to stick up for your friend/pupil. That takes a lot of effort and respect.

Thanks, it’s a pleasure to hear that.

People expect a really randomly scrambled cube

You know, the sad thing is people did not have any expectations, as most of them saw the 7x7 first time in life.
Even though they understand that something is unusual, that if he solved a 3x3 cube at the beginning of the performance in more than a minute, but for 7x7 it took only 40-50 seconds more, even though some of them feel about the trick, they didn’t actually care about it.
Here is an example of similar perception. You came to a “Country N Got Talented” where a woman from the stage says “I’ll knit a sweater within 2 minutes”. She takes a ball of yarn, knitting needles, and after 2 minutes the sweater is ready.
Absolutely, it will be questionable whether it’s real, but do you care? Watched, had fun, forgot on the next day. But if somebody will be inspired of knitting, they’ll definitely don’t expect knitting a sweater in real life in 2 minutes.
I’m a bit puzzling, why a lot people on the forum think that “now non-cubers will start thinking that 7x7BLD is easy”. Smart people won’t start thinking so, and even if non-smart people start, I think it’s not a group whose respect is worth to earn.

If he goes on stage as a speedcuber ...
... he shouldn't pretend he can do something that he cannot do on a talentshow

For this great thanks! This argument overweighs everything that was provided on the last few pages.
I will try to contact to him. Actually, I don’t have his contact information, I’ll try to contact somebody who can contact to him, to check this.

===========
And one more thing to mention, please don’t try to make me change my mind. I look at things deeper and broader. From one hand there are millions of inspired people, from another side there is discomfort of hundreds of true respectful speedcubers. I just see both sides, just currently don’t know how to show you that another side, being far from there. But I see that other side too

(under “inspired” in this context I meant feelings that you let’s say felt after Susan Boyle’s performance. Even though a lot of people won’t start singing after that, they felt “inspired”. Maxim’s performance causes similar emotions).

Everybody knows a quote “Don’t let the noise of others’ opinions drown out your own inner voice”. I’m one of those who had similar attitude since the childhood even without knowing this quote, and I think most of people on the forum like that. So, arguments are good things, emotions are irrelevant

 

[DrKorbin]

Here is an example of similar perception. You came to a “Country N Got Talented” where a woman from the stage says “I’ll knit a sweater within 2 minutes”. She takes a ball of yarn, knitting needles, and after 2 minutes the sweater is ready.
Absolutely, it will be questionable whether it’s real, but do you care? Watched, had fun, forgot on the next day.

Personally I don't care. But I always thought that "X Got Talented" show appreciates people who are talented, not people who can amuse public. It is not named "X Got Entertainers".