Should stickerless cubes be allowed in WCA competition?

[Kattenvriendin]

that a ruling on worn stickers is up to the discretion of the judge.

Wrong.. up to the WCA delegate

http://worldcubeassociation.org/regulations/#3j1

 

[Pyjam]

One question : would a delegate refuse my cube for just three little scratches on the stickers?

I doubt a judge or WCA delegate would refuse my cube for so few.

He should.

I'm a ZZ cuber, I use a fixed cube orientation for every solve. For me, just a little scratch on one edge and two corners would help me a lot for recognition.

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

One question : would a delegate refuse my cube for just three little scratches on the stickers?

I doubt a judge or WCA delegate would refuse my cube for so few.

He should.

I'm a ZZ cuber, I use a fixed cube orientation for every solve. For me, just a little scratch on one edge and two corners would help me a lot for recognition.

But would you put in the effort to learn which corners had the scratches on and actually use this information in a speedsolve?

 

[Noahaha]

But would you put in the effort to learn which corners had the scratches on and actually use this information in a speedsolve?

BLD maybe...

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

BLD maybe...

OK fine. So let's assume that chipped stickers are an advantage. There are a few ways to rectify this:
1. Force people to use new stickers in competitions. This would be incredibly expensive, since small chips/scratches can occur often and not after much use.
2. Create stickers that never chip. This again would be impractical for people who can't get them or afford them
3. Remove stickers completely and move to stickerless cubes. But then people can use the larger advantage of stickerless cubes in competition because we don't allow something that's more likely to be just a distraction.

Maybe in a perfect world you could say no sticker damage, but this is real life and stuff happens. What we have at the moment is the best compromise on practicality and on ease of enforcement. If you are using small chips in stickers to cheat, then you should feel bad and also it would probably be noticed during your solves.

 

[Pyjam]

But would you put in the effort to learn which corners had the scratches on and actually use this information in a speedsolve?

I would do the scratches myself : on RED on the RED/WHITE edge and corners.
The same on the ORANGE face would be good too.

 

[Noahaha]

OK fine. So let's assume that chipped stickers are an advantage. There are a few ways to rectify this:
1. Force people to use new stickers in competitions. This would be incredibly expensive, since small chips/scratches can occur often and not after much use.
2. Create stickers that never chip. This again would be impractical for people who can't get them or afford them
3. Remove stickers completely and move to stickerless cubes. But then people can use the larger advantage of stickerless cubes in competition because we don't allow something that's more likely to be just a distraction.

Maybe in a perfect world you could say no sticker damage, but this is real life and stuff happens. What we have at the moment is the best compromise on practicality and on ease of enforcement. If you are using small chips in stickers to cheat, then you should feel bad and also it would probably be noticed during your solves.

I think the situation on that is pretty good the way it is. Delegates can tell people not to use certain cubes.

 

[cxinlee]

But would you put in the effort to learn which corners had the scratches on and actually use this information in a speedsolve?

We can't assume that everyone wouldn't.

 

[JohanAR]

THIS :

"Puzzles are permitted to have reasonable wear, at the discretion of the WCA Delegate."

Stickers are allowed to have some wear (rule 3j1), as long as they don't violate rule 3j: i.e. puzzle has "markings or other differences that distinguish any piece from a similar piece" etc. The line is when you can tell pieces apart by looking at the wear patterns. The person who has the final say if your puzzle breaks any rule is the WCA delegate, as with every other judgement call.

It doesn't mean that you some times are allowed to have marked pieces if the delegate is in a good mood or something.

 

[qqwref]

If stickerless cubes were allowed, everyone would be pressured to buy a stickerless cube to make things fair.

Except that this totally didn't happen when they were legal. It was just like it was now, that is, people used whatever cube they wanted and there was a ton of variation.

 

[Kirjava]

If stickerless cubes we made legal, I would have to buy one.

I would then perform the 'mod' I talked about and enjoy my ability to recognise CLL from any angle with my single-angle-only recognition system.

 

[~Adam~]

24 pages? What are people not getting? You can see sides of the cube that you are not looking directly at adding functionality to the cube that was never originally intended.

Can I use flavoured stickers for blind?
Of course not.

 

[Pyjam]

24 pages? What are people not getting?

Thanks for your input. Of those 24 pages, how many have you read ?

 

[~Adam~]

Only about 15.

It's mostly people complaining that because of some other thing that is still legal therefore stickerless cubes should still be legal. That is a reason for those other things to be made illegal not visa versa.
That or thinking that it is not a useable advantage when it can quite obviously be exploited with practice, especially to find out what BR and BL are during F2L without awkwardly turning the cube during another pair.

 

[Pyjam]

Right.

Plus, those other little things that should be illegal exist and they haven't destroy the competition.

I would then perform the 'mod' I talked about and enjoy my ability to recognise CLL from any angle with my single-angle-only recognition system.

If it helps to go faster, some may see it as an improvement.

Stickerless cubes could be seen like the introduction of poles made of fiberglass or carbon fiber in pole vault. Those poles have dramatically increase the performance, but it's still pole vault.

 

[Olji]

I would then perform the 'mod' I talked about and enjoy my ability to recognise CLL from any angle with my single-angle-only recognition system.

Although wouldn't that violate 3h? Specifically the additional information part. (This would probably apply to the supercube-stickering idea someone had a few pages before too.)

Modifications that enhance the basic concept of a puzzle are not permitted. Modified versions of puzzles are permitted only if the modification does not make any additional information available to the competitor (e.g. identity of pieces), compared to an unmodified version of the same puzzle.

 

[itgfreak]

I'm sure lots of people here have stacks of 'zombie' cubes collecting dust right beside their stickerless Zanchi

 

[Kirjava]

democracy much?

The WCA/WRC doesn't seem to value the opinion of the community like it once did.

Say goodbye to +2.

 

[~Adam~]

The facts remain that over 50% of us want this to be an option ( democracy much? )

Over 50% of the people who voted.
You are more likely to open and vote in this thread if you are for the use of stickerless cubes in my opinion.

there are unofficial times of people getting sub 5s on a stickered cube

I presume you meant stickerless.
What does that have to do with anything?

 

[MorrisKid101]

This is the WCA rule:
"Stickerless" cubes, and other cubes whose face colours are visible inside the cube, are not permitted.
This proves that it is not the fact the cube is stickerless, it's the fact you can see the colours on the inside where the two/three bits of coloured plastic join. If there was some way to remove that, but still keeping the cube stickerless, you may be able to pull the wool over the eyes of the WCA

And I think stickerless cubes SHOULD be allowed. I heard that the face colour on the inside creates confusion with +2 and possibly DNF. How could you be confused by two colours of plastic?! You can clearly see by the rotation of the layer whether or not it is over a 45° angle. Can someone please give me a legitimate reason why stickerless cubes should not be allowed? Unless I'm missing something, then the whole thing seems kinda ridiculous.