musicninja17
Veteran
This is getting ridiculous. There's no reason to get rid of this part of the regulations unless someone can prove, without any doubt, that stickerless cubes help you get faster.
Should stickerless cubes be allowed in WCA competition?
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This is getting ridiculous. There's no reason to get rid of this part of the regulations unless someone can prove, without any doubt, that stickerless cubes help you get faster.
Escher
Babby
Could somebody with a stickerless cube try inserting a small piece of black paper between the edge of each piece? Just enough to cover the furthermost edge... Edges would be fine for providing an example of showing whether my idea works or not.
If my idea works it should provide a method of using stickerless cubes without 'additional info'.
The problem with this approach is that each stickerless cube used would have to be verified by a delegate, or perhaps just the scramblers/judges.
If my idea works it should provide a method of using stickerless cubes without 'additional info'.
The problem with this approach is that each stickerless cube used would have to be verified by a delegate, or perhaps just the scramblers/judges.
Schmidt
Veteran
@Kirjava Do you own this cube?? If yes, could you scramble it and take a picture of it to see if it is possible to predict the last 3 edges and last corner( maybe even posistion and orientation)
BTW why is it mirrored??
megaminxwin
Current Clock NR Holder
Your point being?
Actually, this helps. If there's no proof going either way, why do people want to change it at all? Until we get proof that one way is better than another, we should keep it as it is until we get that proof. It'd be stupid to change it.
Pyjam
Premium Member
Not actually, theoretically.
Forget the stickerless cubes for a moment. Theoretically, you could cheat during the competitions. What would you say if you were banned until you prove you're not a cheater?
megaminxwin
Current Clock NR Holder
...I don't understand this question at all.
Godmil
Premium Member
Wait, are you suggesting puting paper over all the (possibly visible) internal surfaces? That's going to kill it's turning quality.
Pyjam
Premium Member
Is it badly translated? I'm not a native english speaker.
My point is: no one needs to prove his innocence while there's no clear evidence that he's guilty.
Your sentence seems to suggest that you disapprove this idea.
qqwref
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Yeah, I think I would. From personal experience I wouldn't be worried about it helping people out all that much, though.
I think he's saying to put paper between the differently-colored parts of each piece.
Kirjava
Colourful
You have no idea how good it would be for LSE recognition.
Escher
Babby
theCuppman
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Woah wait, stickerless cubes? How does that work? And it makes it easier? I don't know as much as I thought I did...
oll+phase+sync
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I see no reason at all why any cuber should be forced to waist his lifetime by restickering cubes.
I use PVC stickers on one of my cubes, these are thicker than normal stickers, witch obviously makes it possible to predict the color of a sticker from more viewing angles as if I were using thin stickers. It would be quite silly if this would be forbidden.
I use PVC stickers on one of my cubes, these are thicker than normal stickers, witch obviously makes it possible to predict the color of a sticker from more viewing angles as if I were using thin stickers. It would be quite silly if this would be forbidden.
megaminxwin
Current Clock NR Holder
Ah.
Okay. So you're saying that I don't think we should change something, because there's no proof for it being true or not. You then go on to say that because of this, I disapprove in the idea that people who have been charged on flimsy evidence shouldn't have to prove that they're not guilty.
It's a good point, actually. But you could say that we haven't finished this discussion yet, which I'm now feeling more open to discuss. As a result, the trial is still in progress, and until we have definitive evidence either way - and I mean actual, proper evidence - we can't actually charge anyone.
See what I mean?
So I sort of changed my viewpoint, but I'm still on the same side as I was before.
Also I find it funny that in the beginning, Kirjava was for this, but then he left, and now he's against it.
Okay. So you're saying that I don't think we should change something, because there's no proof for it being true or not. You then go on to say that because of this, I disapprove in the idea that people who have been charged on flimsy evidence shouldn't have to prove that they're not guilty.
It's a good point, actually. But you could say that we haven't finished this discussion yet, which I'm now feeling more open to discuss. As a result, the trial is still in progress, and until we have definitive evidence either way - and I mean actual, proper evidence - we can't actually charge anyone.
See what I mean?
So I sort of changed my viewpoint, but I'm still on the same side as I was before.
Also I find it funny that in the beginning, Kirjava was for this, but then he left, and now he's against it.
Ickathu
Veteran
So you're saying innocent until proven guilty? Okay. Fair argument. If it works in crimes/court/law type settings (US, not sure about other places) then it should work with speedcubing.
Rubiksboy1
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It shouldn't be allowed to be used for this reason: if you take a stickered cube, look at the U face straight-on from above, and make a D turn, halfway through the turn you can see normally hidden parts of the corners. If you had a stickerless cube and did that, you would be able to identify what corners you are looking at because those parts are colored the same as the corners themselves, unlike with the stickered cube, where that part is simply black, and offers no advantage.
Someone with a stickerless cube would therefore have an advantage.
Someone with a stickerless cube would therefore have an advantage.
Penguinstorm300
Regular
I think that stickerless cubes should be allowed:
I have a stickerless cube myself, and yes, if the cube is halfway through a turn it is possible to see colours. Note that when you turn a 'D' move, it is only possible to see the left and front face colours on the corner in front of you. Also, it is very difficult to see colours halfway through a turn. I have tried that myself during a solve (I turn around 3.1 turns per second during solves) I noticed that it was almost impossible to see the colours even at that low speed. Many good cubers nowadays turn at over 7 turns per second.
I have a stickerless cube myself, and yes, if the cube is halfway through a turn it is possible to see colours. Note that when you turn a 'D' move, it is only possible to see the left and front face colours on the corner in front of you. Also, it is very difficult to see colours halfway through a turn. I have tried that myself during a solve (I turn around 3.1 turns per second during solves) I noticed that it was almost impossible to see the colours even at that low speed. Many good cubers nowadays turn at over 7 turns per second.
Roberto Vazquez
Member
In my opinion, they should only be allowed in Blindfold solving, because really, you're never gonna look at it during the solve.
cubernya
Premium Member
It is allowed in BLD
Hunter
Veteran
Here is what I think.
First of all, pillowed cubes are not allowed.
However, the V-Cube 7, which is pillowed, is allowed.
Their reasoning is that many of the production 7x7s are pillowed, so they are allowed.
The ShengShou 7x7, (rated by users) is a vastly better cube than the V-Cube.
( http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?37390-ShengShou-7x7-vs-V-Cube-7 )
(The Shengshou is cubic)
I predict that the Shengshou 7x7 will become (if it is not already) more popular than the V-cube 7.
What I believe will happen is that pillowed 7x7 cubes will still be legal, even when most of the competitors are using ShengShous.
So, lets say stickerless cubes stay illeagal until the point when 2/3rds of the competitors are using the ShengShou 7x7 and 1/3 are using the V-cube 7 which is still legal.
At this point, an illegal cube (V-Cube 7) is now legal due to the fact that there are not many cubic 7x7s, even after they are outnumbered 2 to 1 to cubic cubes.
Many people use Dayan guhongs, zhanchis, lingyuns, and most likely will use the new Dayan 6. All those cubes are available in white, black, and stickerless. That means, the most popular brand has 1/3 of its cubes stickerless.
If this happened, 1/3 of 7x7s are illeagal because they are pillowed, but the rules were changed to let them compete, and 1/3 of all 3x3s are illegal because they are stickerless. Why would we not have stickerless legal?
What if someone just wanted to buy a cube and didn't have enough money and time to buy stickers all the time. They cant compete.
Stickerless cubes are amazing. They last essentially forever and still look new. They are one of the biggest new revelations in the cubing world. Why waste money on stickers when you can have an always new looking cube, all the time?
This argument has been mentioned before, but if stickerless cubes are legalized, they don't really offer an advantage because anyone can go buy a stickerless cube if they think it will really help them.
One would save money anyway in the long run not having to buy all the stickers.
So what if you can see the back color during a U-turn? How many people are really going to rely on that during a fast speed solve where you are turning 7 faces every second?? (If that is your TPS)
In my opinion, having stickerless cubes be illegal is just wrong. I am tired of sticker shards stuck under my finger nails and spending hours of my life restickering cubes. This is crap.
-------------------
Edit:
For blindfold solving, it seems just as bad as during normal solving. In BLD when you are looking to examine it, that honestly seems like it would be more useful to try and look at the back colors by looking over the edge than during a speed solve.
It does not make sense that they would be allowed forBLD but not speed solving.
On top of that, more than 50% of people want it legalized. If this was put to an actual vote, stickerless would easily win.
First of all, pillowed cubes are not allowed.
However, the V-Cube 7, which is pillowed, is allowed.
Their reasoning is that many of the production 7x7s are pillowed, so they are allowed.
The ShengShou 7x7, (rated by users) is a vastly better cube than the V-Cube.
( http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?37390-ShengShou-7x7-vs-V-Cube-7 )
(The Shengshou is cubic)
I predict that the Shengshou 7x7 will become (if it is not already) more popular than the V-cube 7.
What I believe will happen is that pillowed 7x7 cubes will still be legal, even when most of the competitors are using ShengShous.
So, lets say stickerless cubes stay illeagal until the point when 2/3rds of the competitors are using the ShengShou 7x7 and 1/3 are using the V-cube 7 which is still legal.
At this point, an illegal cube (V-Cube 7) is now legal due to the fact that there are not many cubic 7x7s, even after they are outnumbered 2 to 1 to cubic cubes.
Many people use Dayan guhongs, zhanchis, lingyuns, and most likely will use the new Dayan 6. All those cubes are available in white, black, and stickerless. That means, the most popular brand has 1/3 of its cubes stickerless.
If this happened, 1/3 of 7x7s are illeagal because they are pillowed, but the rules were changed to let them compete, and 1/3 of all 3x3s are illegal because they are stickerless. Why would we not have stickerless legal?
What if someone just wanted to buy a cube and didn't have enough money and time to buy stickers all the time. They cant compete.
Stickerless cubes are amazing. They last essentially forever and still look new. They are one of the biggest new revelations in the cubing world. Why waste money on stickers when you can have an always new looking cube, all the time?
This argument has been mentioned before, but if stickerless cubes are legalized, they don't really offer an advantage because anyone can go buy a stickerless cube if they think it will really help them.
One would save money anyway in the long run not having to buy all the stickers.
So what if you can see the back color during a U-turn? How many people are really going to rely on that during a fast speed solve where you are turning 7 faces every second?? (If that is your TPS)
In my opinion, having stickerless cubes be illegal is just wrong. I am tired of sticker shards stuck under my finger nails and spending hours of my life restickering cubes. This is crap.
-------------------
Edit:
For blindfold solving, it seems just as bad as during normal solving. In BLD when you are looking to examine it, that honestly seems like it would be more useful to try and look at the back colors by looking over the edge than during a speed solve.
It does not make sense that they would be allowed forBLD but not speed solving.
On top of that, more than 50% of people want it legalized. If this was put to an actual vote, stickerless would easily win.
Last edited:
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