My reflection on the evolution of F2L style (+ task for the community)

[Anonymous]

am I wrong that the consensus is that intuitive F2L is superior to algorithmic?

They're essentially the same thing.

That's true for experienced cubers, I guess.

Not an experienced cuber here: Intuitive F2L is basically the same thing as algorithmic FL2, except you don't purposely try to memorise agls, they just kind of end up being memorised by sheer practice.

Yeah, I figured that's what he meant.

 

[pjk]

customizable color scheme for VisualCube like on my site (currently not working, by the way, because of server-side issues).

I've been unable to resolve why it stopped working in the first place. anyway, I've found a quick fix for it and have updated the announcement thread here.

Oh. I meant that the customizable color scheme functionality on my site isn't working right now. Didn't know speedsolving.com's wasn't working. Could you set up the color scheme cookies?

I talked to Conrad and he said the latest version he has does. Additionally, you can also place arrows on the generated images.

And to not get too off-topic, very nice reflections on the evolution of the F2L. Interesting observations.

 

[macky]

I talked to Conrad and he said the latest version he has does. Additionally, you can also place arrows on the generated images.

Right, sorry, I forget that the script description page has it at the bottom because I set up my own cookie setter.

I also think it would be a good idea to consider the simpler ZBF2L cases that are either super fast to execute, or conveniently easy to spot while solving. There are perhaps 20-30 algs (Chris Tran, can you confirm or better this?) that are just really neat and fast, or really useful, and would be a worthwhile addition to any cuber's F2L tool kit. Good examples of these are:
R' D' L F' L' D R2 U R'
M' U' M U2 L F' L'
F R U' R' F' L' U' L
F R U2 R' F' L' U' L
R l U' R' U l'

I didn't know the first two (the rest I've considered even without edge control). I'm not sure if edge-control algs should go in a separate section, but the good ones are definitely worth knowing.

This is a list I compiled a few years ago, when I started practicing solving F2L on the bottom. Maybe it can be of help to you in completing your list. It also gives you an example of how you can organize it:

http://www.cubezone.be/completef2l/index.html

I didn't know this existed! I'll go through it to add to my list (after I divide it into several pages), crediting your site. I've got bunch of nice flipped edge cases, including a couple I think have not been documented before.
(copying from the other thread)
RwR'URU'Rw'U'RUR'
RwR'URU'Rw'RU'R' / RB'RBR'UR'
RBLU'L'B'R' (the only bad case with edge oriented)
RUR2'FRF'RU'R'
RU'R2'FRF'RU'R' by JUN
R'FRF'RU'R'URU'R' by Sinpei
RwUR'U'Rw'R2U'R'
RwU'R'URURw' by Dave Orser

 

[Dene]

Well I don't know about you guys, but anyone with short fat fingers is not going to be able to F' with right index with any deliberation.

That means we shouldn't mention or attempt the technique at all.

Of course it doesn't, and I would never say so.

Well I don't know about you guys, but anyone with short fat fingers is not going to be able to F' with right index with any deliberation.

FALSE.

Also I have been using this as long as I can remember (F' push with right index). But recently someone told me it was bad technique and that I should be using left index w/o re grip to pull down the ULF sticker because pushes are inherently slower than pulls.

I want proof of someone with short, fat fingers doing F' with right index with efficiency.

Just my own example: When I try it in the J perm (about 20 attempts) not once have I managed to do the full turn.

 

[DavidWoner]

David Calvo showed me the OLL L'U'LU'L'ULULF'L'F with right index push for the first U'. No regrip. For the mirror, I do find the left index flick for the first U pretty comfortable. Human hands are amazing.
[Edit] I suppose this could also be used in Sune and double Sune. Right now it seems a bit lidicurous.

!!!

Wow now I can do the mirrored sune without changing my grip from start to finish!

Thanks for that suggestion Macky!

Jai has been doing that for aaaagggeeesss. That's how he was getting .3x sunes 2 years ago.

 

[Robert-Y]

Wow Jai can do two sunes almost faster then I can do one...

 

[Edward]

Well I don't know about you guys, but anyone with short fat fingers is not going to be able to F' with right index with any deliberation.

That means we shouldn't mention or attempt the technique at all.

Of course it doesn't, and I would never say so.

Well I don't know about you guys, but anyone with short fat fingers is not going to be able to F' with right index with any deliberation.

FALSE.

Also I have been using this as long as I can remember (F' push with right index). But recently someone told me it was bad technique and that I should be using left index w/o re grip to pull down the ULF sticker because pushes are inherently slower than pulls.

I want proof of someone with short, fat fingers doing F' with right index with efficiency.

Just my own example: When I try it in the J perm (about 20 attempts) not once have I managed to do the full turn.

Tilt the cube a bit?

 

[StachuK1992]

quick note:

Learning the I and Im cases from CLS can be very beneficial, and it's only 8 or 16 (if you dont' wanna mirror) cases, easily learned. CLS is not just for full MGLS users or Petrus/ZZ users.

For example if you have a http://www.opticubes.com/cubing/f2l/f2l_30.gif case, and it's not your last, just U R U' R', and gogo I/Im later.

 

[Matt S]

This is an interesting thread. The advantages of using all these special algs to avoid cube rotations is obvious, and Breandan and many others have proved that it's very fast. However, Feliks has shown that it's possible to be unbelievably fast even with a relatively high number of rotations. I wonder how it will all play out over the next couple years.

quick note:

Learning the I and Im cases from CLS can be very beneficial, and it's only 8 or 16 (if you dont' wanna mirror) cases, easily learned. CLS is not just for full MGLS users or Petrus/ZZ users.

For example if you have a http://www.opticubes.com/cubing/f2l/f2l_30.gif case, and it's not your last, just U R U' R', and gogo I/Im later.

EJF2L isn't worth it if you have to do extra work to orient the edges. Unfortunately, while easiest to learn and use, the I/Im cases are the longest.

 

[StachuK1992]

quick note:

Learning the I and Im cases from CLS can be very beneficial, and it's only 8 or 16 (if you dont' wanna mirror) cases, easily learned. CLS is not just for full MGLS users or Petrus/ZZ users.

For example if you have a http://www.opticubes.com/cubing/f2l/f2l_30.gif case, and it's not your last, just U R U' R', and gogo I/Im later.

EJF2L isn't worth it if you have to do extra work to orient the edges. Unfortunately, while easiest to learn and use, the I/Im cases are the longest.

"Unfortunately, while easiest to learn and use, the I/Im cases are the longest"
by about 1 move, not counting C. At least for my algs.

And yes - only use if convenient.

 

[esquimalt1]

This is really cool to read how cubing evolved over the years macky. The new school cubers have no idea how far this stuff has come. I remembered how it was kinda surprising when Yu Nakajima popped out with his super fast turning, and cube rotations and how his times were so fast.

 

[macky]

Just a note that I've done a major reorganization of Advanced F2L. The index is now here. I'll be making incremental improvements in the coming weeks.

With Wiki, you only get partial control of the formatting. Once Lucas Garron gets algnex.us up, I'll probably transfer control of management to him.

 

[StachuK1992]

Just a note that I've done a major reorganization of Advanced F2L. The index is now here. I'll be making incremental improvements in the coming weeks.

With Wiki, you only get partial control of the formatting. Once Lucas Garron gets algnex.us up, I'll probably transfer control of management to him.

Looks nice - at this point, what's the best way to help with this?
Also, CLS section.

 

[macky]

With Wiki, you only get partial control of the formatting. Once Lucas Garron gets algnex.us up, I'll probably transfer control of management to him.

Looks nice - at this point, what's the best way to help with this?
Also, CLS section.

Could you recommend the easier CLS cases that a CFOPer should know? You're the most qualified person to do this.

[edit]
More algorithms:
Uw'RU2'R'UwRUR' from Dave Orser
F'RU'R'FRUR'F from me
RU2'R2Uw'R'UwR from Dave Orser
R'FR2U'R'U2'F' from JUN

 

[StachuK1992]

With Wiki, you only get partial control of the formatting. Once Lucas Garron gets algnex.us up, I'll probably transfer control of management to him.

Looks nice - at this point, what's the best way to help with this?
Also, CLS section.

Could you recommend the easier CLS cases that a CFOPer should know? You're the most qualified person to do this.

Sure, I shall go through now and pick the best.
This will give me a good chance to make my "Learn CLS in this order" page.
(I don't really like/recommend people to just learn by the I, then Im, +, etc. There are some really nice, easy cases that I think should first be addressed, then get to the grits of each set later)

 

[AndyK]

I've been waiting for something like your advanced F2L page for a long time. Very well done

 

[StachuK1992]

At this point, what's the best way to help with this?
Also, CLS section.

Could you recommend the easier CLS cases that a CFOPer should know?

Sure, I shall go through now and pick the best.
This will give me a good chance to make my "Learn CLS in this order" page.
(I don't really like/recommend people to just learn by the I, then Im, +, etc. There are some really nice, easy cases that I think should first be addressed, then get to the grits of each set later)

Whew, that took long enough.

Basically, I would recommend learning the algs, in order, until one reaches the break. You'll see it. However, if 32 algs seems like a good deal, at least learn the first 12 (really 5, though, because of C)

Spoiler

The order Stachu suggests learning CLS in.

C cases: (7)

R U R' U R U2 R'
R U2 R' U' R U' R'
R U R' U R U' R' U R U2 R'
r U R' U' r' F R F'
R U2 L' U L U2 R' L' U L
R2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R'
R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R

Three U-layer corners oriented correctly, in the U layer: (5) 12

L D' L' U L D L' +
L' D2 L U2 L' D2 L -
(U2) R2 U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 O
x (R U2 R' U' R U' R') (L' U2 L U L 'U L) x' I
[U y] (R U R' U')*2 [L2] (U R U' R')*2 L2 Im

One U-layer corner misoriented in U-layer: (18) 30

d (R' U R) U (R' U2' R) +
(U) (R U2 R') U2 (R U R') U2 (R U2 R')
(U') (R U2' R') U (R U R')
(U2) (R2 U' L') U (R2 U' L)
(U2) (R U2 R') U2 (R U R' U') (R U R')
U (R U2 R') U2 (R U R') U (R U' R')

(R U R' U') (R U' R') U2 (R U2 R') -
(R U2 R') U' (R U' R')
(R U R' U') (R U' R') U (R U' R')
(U) (R U2 R') U' (R U R') [U (R U2 R')]*2
(U') (R U' R') U' (R U2 R')
(U) L U' R U L' U' R'

(U2) (R U' R') U (R U R') U (R U' R') O
(U) (R U R') [U (R U' R')]*2 U2 (R U R')
(U) (R U2 R' U')*3
(U') (R U R' U') (R U R') U (R U' R')
(R U R') [U (R U2 R')]*2 U (R U R')
(U2) R U2 R U2 R2 U' R2 U' (R' U R')

Quick Sunes: (2) 32

(U2) F' (RH anti-sune) F
(U2) F' Sune F

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now's where you start learning CLS to actually learn CLS, not just "easy cases"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remainder of I cases: (7) 39

(R U R' U')(R U2 R') U'(R U R')
U2 (R U' R') U' (R U R')U2 (R U' R')
(R U2 R' U2) (R U2 R') U' (R U R')
(R U' R') U' (R U R' U') (R U2 R')
U (R U' R') U' (R U R') U2 (R U R' U') (R U R')
(R U' R') (U2 R U' R')*3
(R U2 R' U2 (R U R' U'))*2

Remainder of Im cases: (7) 46

(R U' R') U (R U2 R') (U R U' R')
U' (R U R') U2 (R U' R') U (R U R')
(R U2 R') U (R U' R') U (R U R')
(R U2 R') [U (R U' R')]*2 U' (R U' R')
(R U' R') U (R U2 R') U2 (R U2 R')
U (R U R') U R2 U R' U R U2 R2
(R U' R') U2 (R U2 R') U (R U' R') U2 (R U2 R')

Other Pretty Fast cases: (23) 69

(U) (R U R') U2 (R U R') +
U (R U' R') U (R U R' U') (R U R')
(U') (R U2' R') U (R U R')
(U2) (R U' R') U (R U' R') U' (R U R')
(U') (R U2 R') U (R U' R') U' (R U' R')
(U2) (R U' R') U2 (R U R') U (R U R')
d R' U (R U2 R') U R

(U') (R U' R') U2' (R U' R') -
R U' (R U2 R') U' R U' R2
(R U' R') U2 (R U R') U2 (R U R' U') (R U R')
(R U2 R') U R2 U2 (R' U' R) U' R2
(U2) (R U' R') U2 (R U2 R') U2 (R U' R')
(R U' R2) U2 (R U R') U R2 U R'
R2 U2 (R U' R') U R2 U' R U' (R' U R')
(U') (R U' R') U' (R U' R') U (R U2 R')
(R U R') U (R U R' U') (R U' R') U2 (R U R')
(U) R2 U (R' U R) U2 (R' U R')

(R U R' U')*3 O
(R U R' U')*2 (R U2 R' U)*2
(U) (R U R' U') (R U2 R') U (R U' R')
[U (R U' R')]*2 U (R U R' U') (R U' R')
U' (R U R') U (R U' R') U2 (R U R')
(U) (R U2 R') U' (R U2 R') U2 (R U' R')

Finish off O: (13) 82

(R U2 R') U' (R U' R') U (R U' R') U2 (R U' R')
(U') (R U' R') U' (R U R' U') (R U R') U2 (R U' R')
(U') (R U2 R') U2 (R U2 R') U (R U' R')
(R U R') U2 (R U2 R') U2' (R U R')
(R U2 R') U R' U' (R U' R') U2 R2 U R'
R U' R2 U' (R U' R') U2 (R2 U R')
(R U2 R') U' (R U' R') U (R U' R') U' (R U2 R')
U2 (R U' R') U' (R U' R') U2 (R U R')
(U2) (R U2 R') U2 (R U' R' U)*2
(U') (R U R' U') (R U R') U2 (R U2 R')
(U2) (R U' R') [U (R U R')]*2 U' (R U' R')
(U' y') R' U2 (R U R') U2 (R U2 R') U R
U (R U R' U') [(R U2 R') U2]*2

Finish off -: (9) 91

(U2) (R U R') U2 (R' U' R) (U' R' U2) (R2 U R')
(R2 U R') U R2 U' R2 U R' U2 R2
(R U' R') U (R' U' R) U' R' U2 R2 U' R'
(U) (R U2 R') U' (R U R') U (R U R')
(U2) (R U' R') U2 (R U2 R') U' (R U2 R')
(U2) R U' R U2 R' U' R' U R2 U2 R2
(U) (R U R') U (R U R' U') (R U2 R')
(R U R' U') (R U' R') U (R U R') U' (R U' R')
(U') (R' U R2) U R' U2 (R U R') U (R' U' R)


Finish off +: (14) (105)

(U2) (R U2 R') U (R U2 R') U2 (R U R')
U R' D' (R U R' U') (R U' R') U2 D R
(U) (R U R') U2 (R U2 R') U (R U2 R')
(R' U R) U2 R2 U' R U2 (R' U' R2)
(R U R') U (R U' R2) U2 R2 U (R2 U R)
(U') (R U R') U2 (R U' R') U2 (R U R' U') (R U R')
(R U R') U2 R' U' (R2 U' R2) U2 (R2 U R')
(U) (R U' R') U (R U R' U')(R U' R') U' (R U' R')
(U') (R2 U2 R') U' R U' R2' U (R U R') U
(U2) R U' R2 U2 (R U R') U R U2 (R U' R')
d R' U (R U2 R') U R
(U2) R U R2 U' (R U' R') U2 R2 U2 R'
(R U R') U (R U2' R') U (R U' R')U2 (R U' R')
L2 D' (L' U L) D L2 U (L U2 L')

That took...a long time.

 

[macky]

Great! Copying the 32(-7) to the CLS page now.

Questions:
(1) 2nd group 2nd alg under "One U-layer corner misoriented in U-layer: (18) 30"
(R U2 R') U' (R U' R') ?
(2) the two "quick Sunes"?
(3) you don't use (U)RULU'R'UL' ?

 

[StachuK1992]

Great! Copying the 32(-7) to the CLS page now.

Questions:
(1) 2nd group 2nd alg under "One U-layer corner misoriented in U-layer: (18) 30"
(R U2 R') U' (R U' R') ?
(2) the two "quick Sunes"?
(3) you don't use (U)RULU'R'UL' ??

editing...

1 - (U') (R U' R') U' (R U2 R') U' (R U2 R') U' (R U' R') sorry about that
2 - Basically, those are just 2 really nice cases that are easy to learn that have sune or anti-sune in them (making them fast/easy to learn)
3 - For OH, yes. Yeah, I know that's backwards. :/

half on-topic: wow. I guess I should bother finishing learning CLS myself, seeing as how I've done so much with it (algs, papers, multiple threads, this, trainer...)

 

[macky]

done minus the quick Sune cases. Let me know how you want to put up the full list, by the way. I can easily make a separate page for the full list based on your previous post, and that could do until Lucas gets algnex.us up.

Plan view's good?