Do OLLs effect which PLL you get?

[Weston]

The misuses of "effect" and "affect" are driving me crazy.

 

[Tomk]

It all depends on what pieces are where.
For the last time, he's saying that the OLL DOES switch around the pieces in some way and that just because that happens, does not mean you will get the same PLL case very time.

unless you know one look last layer.

Who does?

http://www.worldcubeassociation.org...gionId=&years=&show=All+Persons&single=Single

thats 594 people, officially. Also look at http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3582

I know technically a one look cube but that does include the last layer...

 

[4Chan]

I have a one look last layer. >.>

I can actually decide if I want a certain PLL.
(If edges are oriented.)

 

[HALLU]

All OLLs can give all PLLs. It's just coincidence.. Depending on what algorithm you use to solve the OLL case, you will get certain PLL cases.

 

[deadalnix]

This thread proff that being intelligent isn't required to solve the cube.

 

[Markus Pirzer]

All OLLs can give all PLLs. It's just coincidence.. Depending on what algorithm you use to solve the OLL case, you will get certain PLL cases.

Almost correct, but I would add the following:

Depending on what algorithm you use to solve the OLL case and depending on how the LL is permuted before applying any algorithm you will get a certain PLL case.

Different OLL algorithms permute the pieces in different ways, but you can have all kind of permutations (no matter which OLL case you have) before you apply any algorithm.

 

[joey]

I have a one look last layer. >.>

I can actually decide if I want a certain PLL.
(If edges are oriented.)

I love how someone (you) actually knows ZBLL now, just for posts like this.

 

[Rune]

OMG this is the exact combination I just had yesterday in my record video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfqs2rdAkRg#t=25
Still just coincidence.

Do yuo think that the distribution of the PLLs is independent of the OLL you are just executing?

 

[4Chan]

Haha, sorry if i sounded too arrogant.

 

[trying-to-speedcube...]

Never mind, you always sound arrogant

 

[deadalnix]

Do yuo think that the distribution of the PLLs is independent of the OLL you are just executing?

It's not a matter of thinking or whatever. It's mathematical. What people think have nothing to do with that.

 

[Stefan]

OMG this is the exact combination I just had yesterday in my record video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfqs2rdAkRg#t=25
Still just coincidence.

Do yuo think that the distribution of the PLLs is independent of the OLL you are just executing?

Yeah. I'd summarize it like this:

PLL is affected, PLL probabilities are not.

guitardude7241 was right about the first part but apparently didn't understand that the question was about the second part. Yes, obviously one *can* affect the PLL probabilities by choosing an OLL alg depending on PLL, but clearly that's not what Zarxrax had in mind.

 

[Cyrus C.]

Wait, couldn't PLL probabilities be affected? Let's say you get a G perm, you have a 1/9 chance of getting that, with the OLL said before. Now if the way your OLL manipulates the permutation, couldn't that cause a 1/9 for T perms?

 

[joey]

Huh ^^

 

[Stefan]

Wait, couldn't PLL probabilities be affected? Let's say you get a G perm, you have a 1/9 chance of getting that, with the OLL said before. Now if the way your OLL manipulates the permutation, couldn't that cause a 1/9 for T perms?

Let's do this for the 2x2x2 which has fewer and simpler PLLs. The cases and probabilities:

1/6 chance of PLL = solved
1/6 chance of PLL = opposite corners swapped
4/6 chance of PLL = adjacent corners swapped

Pick some OLL algorithm and analyse what it does to the probabilities.

 

[Cyrus C.]

Sune: Since mine is 2-gen it won't matter.
Anti-Sune: 2-gen
Double Superman:
Solved-Opposite corners swapped
Opposite corners swapped - solved
Adjacent corners swapped - Adjacent Corners swapped
Adjacent corners swapped - Adjacent corners swapped
Adjacent corners swapped - Adjacent corners swapped
Adjacent corners swapped - Adjacent corners swapped

Ah, I think I get it.

 

[Stefan]

Correct so far. Now try it with an alg that swaps two adjacent corners, that's more interesting.

 

[Cyrus C.]

Okay, I don't know what the OLL is called but...

Solved - Adjacent
Opposite - Adjacent
Adjacent - Solved
Adjacent - Opposite
Adjacent - Adjacent
Adjacent - Adjacent

Basically your still going to have the same odds, it's just the OLL permutation is different than the PLL permutation, correct?

 

[Rune]

OMG this is the exact combination I just had yesterday in my record video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfqs2rdAkRg#t=25
Still just coincidence.

Do yuo think that the distribution of the PLLs is independent of the OLL you are just executing?

Yeah. I'd summarize it like this:

PLL is affected, PLL probabilities are not.

QUOTE]

Just my thougt: A certain OLL gives the probabilities for the following PLLs. Those probabilities are not neccesarily the same as the known probabilities for the different PLLs. Weighting over all OLLs should give the correct value.

 

[deadalnix]

Just my thougt: A certain OLL gives the probabilities for the following PLLs. Those probabilities are not neccesarily the same as the known probabilities for the different PLLs. Weighting over all OLLs should give the correct value.

In this case, stop thinking and start doing math.