new blindfolds

[tim]

We're adults, we can also behave like adults.

We are not. We just believe to behave like adults.

But back to topic:
All this discussion about cheating scares me. Until today i totally trusted everyone who competed in official competitions. I neither thought about cheating nor i assumed that anyone else cheats.
In my opinion inventing better blindfolds is like building better defensive weapons. So the enemy will start building better weapons to avoid the defensive weapons.
What about this idea: Every competitior may use a blindfold if he wants to, but no one forces him to do so. He also could just close her eyes. The entire blindfold competition would be based on trust and speedcubing would probably be the first sport, in which the competitiors enjoy complete confidence. That would be so awesome.

 

[frsechet]

tim: I agree that confidence is the key. I mean, whether you can solve the cube blindfolded or not, it's your problem. I don't really care about winning a competition (which I did not, may I point that one out). I don't care about people thinking I cheated because I know for myself I didn't cheat. That's what's important. What I don't really like here is how Arnaud came and said "that guy is a cheater I know it I saw him look under the blindfold" etc. He doesn't know. He thinks he saw me look under the blindfold, but unless he has Superman's eyes, I would not see how he could actually see me look under the blindfold anyway. I think I've made my point here, so I'm not going to argue because it doesn't really matter to me. I mean, I'm not Gaëtan... :-D Actually, I don't know for sure what HE wants...
What I wanted to say, and I was about to PM you about it is, where in KA do you live? I lived there for a while, a few years ago... and I'm probably going again in 2 months or so, visiting a friend. Could set up a meeting?

 

[Stefan]

I've met both Arnaud and Francois personally and you're both very nice guys. I hope this issue, based I think on misunderstandings, doesn't cause a conflict but that it has been cleared now.

 

[Pedro]

(...)
I think I've made my point here, so I'm not going to argue because it doesn't really matter to me. I mean, I'm not Gaëtan... :-D Actually, I don't know for sure what HE wants...
(...)

and does anybody know? maybe even him doesn't know...

I don't understand why he never went to a competition to show his amazing skills, solving the cube bld with 2 seconds inspection...and probably with his normal method...

 

[AvGalen]

You are right François, I don't know for sure and I never will. Ron did the right thing by confronting you after the solve and discussing his suspicion with you. At that time I didn't feel it was my place (I felt completely overwhelmed by all those incredible top-cubers) to confront you or contact a judge. I also didn't feel the need for it because you DNF'ed anyway.
I didn't personaly attack you, I didn't mention your name and I even said that I was confident that you could actually solve the cube blindfolded. I just wanted to tell people that cheating is not something that Stefan is worried about, but that it is an actual problem that should be prevented. If you know me, you realize that is a pretty big statement coming from me.
You have changed my mind about you actually cheating, but you have also proven Stefans point that cheating is actually possible. And I would recommend that you pay a lot more attention to your behaviour during your next competition. If both Ron, Grada and me think you are cheating, that means you should be much more carefull when you scratch your nose next time.

There is just one more thing that is bothering me and I hope you can clear the air by explaining what you meant by this: "I want to keep polite so I won't say what I "KNOW" about you...". You make it sound like I have a big secret that you know about, almost like you are blackmailing me.

 

[Stefan]

you have also proven Stefans point that cheating is actually possible.

What... that needed proof? And you mean where he said that he didn't like the gaps caused by the nose with the standard blindfolds, right? I think anyone who has tried them knows about that. Or maybe I'm just also one with a big nose?

 

[frsechet]

There is just one more thing that is bothering me and I hope you can clear the air by explaining what you meant by this: "I want to keep polite so I won't say what I "KNOW" about you...". You make it sound like I have a big secret that you know about, almost like you are blackmailing me.

Hmmm... that was me trying to rephrase something but not getting past the language barrier. I was trying to get to something close to "I KNOW that you're a complete asshole" but without saying it, because this is not what I think and I don't want to say something like that to someone I've probably seen 2 minutes in my life (although... it happens sometimes... but then that person has probably very efficiently used these 2 mins to upset me as hell).
You can probably see where I wanted to get: more like, you're insulting me as much as if I told you that you're an ***. So the :"words hurt" after that. I know no big secret about you, not blackmailing you... sorry for not being very clear. Not being a very quiet day (nor was it a quiet night...) for me!
I'm very glad we cleared that up. Although, I'm not very sure I will stop rubbing my eyes and scratching my nose in the future. There is no reason why I should. I already changed my style, keeping my hands a bit further from my body so that looking underneath the blindfold becomes more obvious, and that was right after talking to Ron that day ;-).
As far as I'm concerned, it's all forgotten...

 

[AvGalen]

I guess I will never understand what you wanted to say.

And just so you don't misunderstand me, I never said you should stop rubbing your eyes or scratching your nose. I just said it would be wise to be more carefull about it so the judge won't suspect you of cheating.

 

[Lucas Garron]

Has anyone considered that no matter how good our blindfolds are, it's possible to get a scramble by photographing or filming an early attempt (and it's not had to justify doing so, considering famous/fast people are more likely to go early) or by getting it from someone else's memo? I bet if I really wanted to, I could convince someone else to go early (to the orgainzers: "(s)he has to use the same cube I'll use, so (s)he needs to go early") and tell me the scramble; as long as no one sees my alt-tab during memo, I'd get away with it. The only thing is, I don't really wanna try that, especially since I have a good chance of getting a good time anyhow...

So, as long as we allow the audience to view solves and don't keep upcoming competitors penned up in a spare area, blindfold manipulation is not the easiest/most effective method to cheat. If we try too hard to block it, well, who knows how cheating will proceed...

(By the way, has anyone else noticed that a fictional person once won the Sunday Contest?)

I think that for now, we're fine with regular BLD's and paper/hand checks (at least, until the sport grows to such a level that we have sponsors providing official blindfolds for each competitior...). The only thing else to do would be ensuring good judges who can catch cheating (maybe an additional one who overviews the entire stage during the entire event?).

But don't let that stop you from finding a good, cheap, effective blindfold.



EDIT: By the way, has anyone ever had a blindfold on uncomfortably during a competition solve? I sometimes pull mine down further to be safe (so I subconsciously prevent myself from cheating, in a way), but Im not sure how this looks to the judges and spectators...

 

[Pedro]

(By the way, has anyone else noticed that a fictional person once won the Sunday Contest?)

when? who?

 

[AvGalen]

At the Polish Open 2007 there was such a "competitors area". It was really good because it sped up the competition and made the competitors more focussed.

 

[slncuber21]

well, I like the towels better...

you said they could be "prepared" or so, but this could be solved by having the main judge "inspecting" the competitors towels before the competition...or no?

i agree, shouldn't the judge(s) check the towels (if they allow them) first?

i do really like the towel idea, even tho i am not and can never be a BLD solver...

 

[cmhardw]

...even tho i am not and can never be a BLD solver...

I used to feel the same way about BLD around when I first started cubing. I think if you tried it you be surprised of two things. First is how much easier BLD cubing is than you might think it is, and secondly how much better your memory and mental visualization ability is than you might think it is.

Chris

 

[David Pritts]

wow... I was about to post a thread here asking if people thought that cheating in BLD was an issue. I was curious because I recently started BLDs, and have "cheated" myself (in practice!) when I knew I screwed something up but didn't want to start over. Then, watching youtubes of official solves, I got a bit suspicious.

I guess I don't really have much to add here, but I will (for one) say that I very much object to the idea of running competitions on an "honor system." Having done many bad things before in my own life, I know that good people can do lousy things

Plus, if we trust people so much, why do we need so many judges in the first place? And why bother distinguish between UWR and OWR? Why must WCA delegates be present at competitions?

David

 

[Dyste]

Well a WCA delegate organizes the competition and may compete themselves...

 

[CraigBouchard]

For some stupid reason, I think that might have been me that put the fictional person in the Sunday Contest...I don't remember :|

 

[Mike Hughey]

...even tho i am not and can never be a BLD solver...

I used to feel the same way about BLD around when I first started cubing. I think if you tried it you be surprised of two things. First is how much easier BLD cubing is than you might think it is, and secondly how much better your memory and mental visualization ability is than you might think it is.

Chris

I want to second that opinion. You should really try it sometime. There's actually less to learn to solve BLD than there is for a typical speedsolving method. You only need a handful of algorithms, and the rest is just practice and memorization. And the memorization really isn't that bad. I wouldn't say that everyone in the world has a good enough memory to do a 3x3x3 BLD, but I certainly think that more than half of the people in the world do. If you have even an average memory, and you can solve the cube sighted (which you can), I really believe you can do it.

 

[Derrick Eide17]

I think i might indeed have a solution to this BLD problem.
its not the most COMFORTABLE THING, but i REALLY DO think it is almost perfect.

okay so my idea:
We use normal BLD still, but, with noseplugs attached the bottom part. it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to see anything. and the ONLY drawback i see is u cant breath out ur nose so a LITTLE uncomfortable. but barely at ALL.

I really think this is a good idea.
what do u guys think?

 

[hdskull]

A couple of things, I want to mention.

1. Fictional people, the Sunday Contest has been quite good, almost everyone that places in the top 10, we'd know. But for Ryan Heise's BLD competition, who is Chi Chu exactly, and where is he from? He has never been to competition before, it's not that I doubt people can BLD that fast, but it's hard not to be suspicious. Does anyone have a video of him ?

2. To respond to what Corwin said, the BLD cuber was Araki from Japan. Here's the specific video you were referring to, the black pocket part is @ 5:23:

3. I think something similar to the "black pocket" can be used. Basically what I suggest is a blindfold and a rectangular box with 3 sides cut out, 2 on the side for hands/arms, and one on the side opposite of the cuber for the audience to see, and the solve itself should be conducted inside the box. I think it will be pretty hard to cheat like this.

4. Usually I close my eyes when I solve, but I guess cheating does occur with people ?

5. Behind the back can be a solution too, but I find it a little harder to execute behind the back, so times now and times behind the back might be slightly different, thus making the records not fair.

 

[joey]

1. Fictional people, the Sunday Contest has been quite good, almost everyone that places in the top 10, we'd know. But for Ryan Heise's BLD competition, who is Chi Chu exactly, and where is he from? He has never been to competition before, it's not that I doubt people can BLD that fast, but it's hard not to be suspicious. Does anyone have a video of him ?

Chi Chu is chinese. I believe him to be real, he has posted to the UWR before aswell, and has several times. I have not seen videos of him.