9x9?

[luke1984]

In situations like these, you should follow this analysis:

1) Has a patent been used?
2) Was the patentholder compensated?
3) Were any local laws broken?
4) Were any internation laws broken?

With the information that I have and the knowledge I have gathered, I guess the answers would be

1) Yes, the F9 is using the V-Patents.
2) No, Verdes didn't license this or gets compensated in any other way
3) I don't know for sure. It seems that this "might" be allowed in China
4) I don't know for sure. It seems to me that exporting it (to most other countries) is probably illegal

So as far as I know it would be illegal for almost everyone (except MAYBE the Chinese) to buy one. That also means that it isn't very useful debating about "Verdes losing money or not". Buying something that is illegal is bad, period.

That doesn't mean it isn't tempting though, so I hope that the F9 will become an officially licensed product soon and that we will see an official V9 on the market as well.

I disagree. If the government would make bread illegal, would you be a bad person if you'd buy a bread? No, you wouldn't. Like I said before, the government is NOT a moral authority. There are lots of arguments to make why buying a knockoff would be "bad" but it being illegal is not one of them.

Are your morals dictated by law?

 

[panyan]

Are your morals dictated by law?

mmmmm, good point, would i give away 40% of my inheritance if the law didnt dictate?

 

[Kian]

Are your morals dictated by law?

mmmmm, good point, would i give away 40% of my inheritance if the law didnt dictate?

eww double taxation.

 

[EE-Cuber]

It's an illegal chinese knockoff
If you buy it, you support criminals
Also, I have my doubts as to the quality

lol...why are they "criminals" again...?

Because they broke international copyright law maybe?

International patent laws are barely recognized in China. You would be hard pressed to find some actual law that was broken according to the Chinese government. And even if you did, it wouldnt be enforced.

 

[EE-Cuber]

In situations like these, you should follow this analysis:

1) Has a patent been used?
2) Was the patentholder compensated?
3) Were any local laws broken?
4) Were any internation laws broken?

With the information that I have and the knowledge I have gathered, I guess the answers would be

1) Yes, the F9 is using the V-Patents.
2) No, Verdes didn't license this or gets compensated in any other way
3) I don't know for sure. It seems that this "might" be allowed in China
4) I don't know for sure. It seems to me that exporting it (to most other countries) is probably illegal

So as far as I know it would be illegal for almost everyone (except MAYBE the Chinese) to buy one. That also means that it isn't very useful debating about "Verdes losing money or not". Buying something that is illegal is bad, period.

That doesn't mean it isn't tempting though, so I hope that the F9 will become an officially licensed product soon and that we will see an official V9 on the market as well.

It is not illegal to buy something that violates a patent law. Consumers are not expected to have the expertise nor the resources to determine whether or not something is violating somebody's patent. When was the last time you checked out that all the synthetic & patented chemicals in your OTC pain meds were legit?

But I agree that these should not be purchased if they are known to violate patents.. just because it is immoral not illegal.

 

[04mucklowd]

I think that china is doing a fine job of making the 9x9
And verdes should hurry up

 

[panyan]

I think that china is doing a fine job of making the 9x9
And verdes should hurry up

thats the proper attitude to have, i completely agree

 

[DcF1337]

I'd buy a 9x9 just for non-cuber friends to gawk at it. Really.

 

[TomZ]

I think that china is doing a fine job of making the 9x9
And verdes should hurry up

thats the proper attitude to have, i completely agree

Wether you like it or not, what those people (not China) is doing, is ILLEGAL. How can you go about saying that's a fine job?

Secondly, what makes you think you can tell mr. Verdes to 'hurry up'? He doesn't owe you anything, but you owe him for making his great cubes and mechanism available to us all.

"It is not illegal to buy something that violates a patent law. Consumers are not expected to have the expertise nor the resources to determine whether or not something is violating somebody's patent. When was the last time you checked out that all the synthetic & patented chemicals in your OTC pain meds were legit?"

I'm pretty sure that knowingly buying something that is counterfeit IS illegal. If you don't know that's a different story but that doesn't apply here, right?

 

[DcF1337]

Wether you like it or not, what those people (not China) is doing, is ILLEGAL. How can you go about saying that's a fine job?

Secondly, what makes you think you can tell mr. Verdes to 'hurry up'? He doesn't owe you anything, but you owe him for making his great cubes and mechanism available to us all.

"It is not illegal to buy something that violates a patent law. Consumers are not expected to have the expertise nor the resources to determine whether or not something is violating somebody's patent. When was the last time you checked out that all the synthetic & patented chemicals in your OTC pain meds were legit?"

I'm pretty sure that knowingly buying something that is counterfeit IS illegal. If you don't know that's a different story but that doesn't apply here, right?

No offence but I think you're being too harsh. You take little comments way too seriously. You can be anti-knockoff all the way and complain all you want, but business still happens. If someone really wants to buy something, you can't stop him, can you? He might have a change of heart by listening to you but the chances of that are rather slim.

Will buying counterfeit puzzles get you arrested? Or fined, at least?

 

[xEscapeFatex]

Honestly, i would probably buy a crappy Verdes (NOT LIKELY AT ALL!) against a better Chinese knockoff for the reason of brand loyalty and hope of them mass producing a V8 (haha punny) V10, V11, because they have had the deigns drawn up ever since the patents have been out. Verdes was the first to ever come out with a higher order than a 5x5x5 so we should show respect to him and not buy a knockoff that could tempt buyers to go toward that than a real verdes cube because the the knockoff came out first.

 

[DcF1337]

Honestly, i would probably buy a crappy Verdes (NOT LIKELY AT ALL!) against a better Chinese knockoff for the reason of brand loyalty and hope of them mass producing a V8 (haha punny) V10, V11, because they have had the deigns drawn up ever since the patents have been out. Verdes was the first to ever come out with a higher order than a 5x5x5 so we should show respect to him and not buy a knockoff that could tempt buyers to go toward that than a real verdes cube because the the knockoff came out first.

While some people buy Chinese 9x9s and post reviews and what not, we just wait here, frantically hoping that Verdes releases a V9?

I wouldn't mind doing that, but it's really tempting, you know.

 

[endless_akatsuki]

lol, luckily for me, I don't solve big cubes, and I don't really have much money, so it's not tempting at all for me

 

[TomZ]

No offence but I think you're being too harsh.

No offence taken.

You take little comments way too seriously.

Generally, taking things you read on the internet seriously is a bad idea.

You can be anti-knockoff all the way and complain all you want, but business still happens. If someone really wants to buy something, you can't stop him, can you? He might have a change of heart by listening to you but the chances of that are rather slim.

Besides my internet reputation, what do I have to loose (or gain for that matter)?

Will buying counterfeit puzzles get you arrested? Or fined, at least?

It's likely it won't but since when is a low chance of getting caught a reason to do something?

 

[DcF1337]

I wanted to rebut but I don't think my points are making any sense. I'll just stop here while I can.

I used to want to be loyal to Verdes and only buy their V-Cubes, but later I thought it wouldn't harm anyone to buy the Chinese 7x7, so I planned to.

Now, however, I'm not so sure. To be the loyal Verdes supporter without the 9x9, or the selfish criminal(?) with the 9x9?

 

[xEscapeFatex]

Ya, it can be a little annoying, but worth it, cause i would rather have the original.

 

[panyan]

this is the original thread thranslated:

http://209.85.227.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://bbs.mf8.com.cn/viewthread.php%3Ftid%3D31774%26extra%3D%26page%3D1&prev=hp&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhit0YPiP__kEWsvVG49xzAfrzzoKQ

 

[Jason]

I also agree that buying a knock-off 9x9 is tempting, but at the end of the day, one question to be asked is this: How will my purchase (and the purchase of many other people) of a knock-off cube affect cubing in future? The chances are that if everybody starts buying knock-offs, people that come up with ingenious, orginal ideas probabaly won't bother bringing them to the market, knowing the personnal and financial investment required. That means no more (or at least less) new mass-produced puzzles, that's the bottom line, and that would be a very sad thing.
So for example, Katsuhiko Okamoto brought the floppy cube and the void cube to the market. He has designed many other great puzzles that I would love to own. The thing is void cubes are being knocked-off. By buying KOs, we're shooting ourselves in the foot. The result being that Katsuhiko may decide that it isn't worth bringing his other puzzles to the market.

This is a very selfish point of view, but the reason I don't buy Knock-offs of new puzzles is I want to make sure that I see as many new puzzles hitting the market.

 

[Ethan Rosen]

@Jason: FINALLY someone else gets it.

I think that china is doing a fine job of making the 9x9
And verdes should hurry up

You should be ashamed of yourself

 

[EE-Cuber]

I'm pretty sure that knowingly buying something that is counterfeit IS illegal. If you don't know that's a different story but that doesn't apply here, right?

What you say is true in the US. However, we are not talking about a counterfeit cube. It would be counterfeit if the Chinese knock off were trying to sell them *AS V Cubes*

But instead they are probably selling them as their own name brand and so we have a case of copied design (possibly violating patents) but not counterfeit. This is not illegal to sell or buy. Verdes may try and file suit against them but good luck with that in China.

Also, it is not clear to me that any patent has been violated. It is possible that the cubes have accomplished the 9x9 mechanism in a different innovative way. I seriously doubt it but its not impossible I suppose. I have not studied either mechanism nor gone through the patents in detail so I am not qualified to mention a violation. Its only suspicion at this time.