bang for buck? time is money

[ryannn]

sorry if the title is somewhat confusing but here is an explanation of my current interests.

I browse this forum from time to time trying not to make useless posts, yet still not experienced enough to contribute.

I was cubing hours a day for a few weeks until i had to take roughly a 6 month break due to intensive study/work.

Before the break I managed to learn Friedrich F2L, and a beginners OLL and PLL and managed to get my time below 2:00 which is hardly an accomplishment, but where I'm roughly stuck.

I've read numerous ways to improve time but I'm looking for the most efficient "First Step" in a sense that I'm limited on practice time and heavy memorization due to work involvement etc.

Which leads me to my current question. What (not how) should I be doing to improve my times to sub-1:00? a time that im not ashamed of.

I realize that look ahead during practice solves is the best way to improve solvetimes, but after that, whats gonna be the most beneficial to getting Sub 1:00 without extremely intensive memorization/practice time.

Cross?
learning OLL alg's aside from my basic beginner method?
or PLL alg's?

other?

If the best method happens to be memorizing alg's, any tips on learning said alg's, such as prioritizing the order in which algs I should learn first due to frequency of said alg's appearing in random solves

replicating said alg's so I can practice it without having to randomly encounter said solve to learn the alg

and any other useful tips for someone that doesn't have alot of time and memory capacity to find the most efficient way possible to go from roughly 2:00 to as close to 50ish seconds as possible.

Thanks in advance, and sorry for such a long read.



Edited to fix serious grammatical errors.

 

[DcF1337]

It's not just the method, the way you handle the cube affects your times to.

If your cube is a storebought, make sure you lube it and break it in well so it can turn smoothly and cut corners better. Also practice finger-tricks, if you haven't already done so. Use individual fingers to turn, instead of grabbing onto an entire side and turning your whole wrist (wristing).

Oh, and practice. Lots and lots of practice. With finger-tricks, practice, and LBL (beginner's method), I could easily sub-1, so I don't see why you can't.

 

[Berry]

Take a look at this site:
http://badmephisto.dyndns.org/site/
He has his algs in a good order to learn them in, But nothing is better then practice.

http://www.cubefreak.net/Fridrich/tips.html

 

[ryannn]

It's not just the method, the way you handle the cube affects your times to.

If your cube is a storebought, make sure you lube it and break it in well so it can turn smoothly and cut corners better. Also practice finger-tricks, if you haven't already done so. Use individual fingers to turn, instead of grabbing onto an entire side and turning your whole wrist (wristing).

Oh, and practice. Lots and lots of practice. With finger-tricks, practice, and LBL (beginner's method), I could easily sub-1, so I don't see why you can't.

well if i recall i have a black type-D, its very loose without popping, its properly lubed etc. What sort of finger tricks do you recommend? also I do the intuitive F2L faster than the beginner method, not sure why. i guess my look ahead or color recognition is just terrible?

and i try to get my OLL and PLL hand movements as quick as possible through sheer repitition to quicken hand movements.

i think i just get incredibly slow when going from the last layer yellow cross into full yellow top.

and the couple of seconds i spend transitioning from 1 alg to the next then deciding if i need clockwise or counter clockwise edge movments on the last part of solve. then again it could be the initial cross and recognition.

not sure but i'll have to admit i was a little shocked when reading others were getting sub 1 with pure beginner method yet i do freidrich f2l faster but get excited when i break sub 2.

thanks for your advice both of you

 

[cmhardw]

In addition to DcF1337's comments I recommend to learn the following, in the following order. If you already know the thing mentioned, you are just one step ahead. Keep in mind that you asked us the plan with the most "bang for your buck". My list is crafted to give you the cases with the highest probability of occurrence first, so that the most useful algs come first, and the least useful algs come last. I am assuming in your beginner version of PLL that you already know the U perm and A perm. When cases have an equal probability to occur I've listed first the ones that most people would agree tend to be faster algorithms to execute.

1) Learn all 4 versions of the G perm (PLL case). Probability of seeing this case during PLL is roughly 22%

2) J perm (PLL case)

3) R perm (PLL case)

4) T perm (PLL case)

5) V perm (PLL case)

6) Y perm (PLL case)

7) F perm (PLL case)

8) Z perm (PLL case)

9) E perm (PLL case)

10) N perm (PLL case)

11) H perm (PLL case)

12) Learn tricks for F2L like empty slot cases. Search for "empty slot" on this forum or on Google to find some examples.

Doing just that should be enough to get you around 1 minute, if not sub-60. Also, some people will probably greatly disagree with the order I have listed the permutations, as I have put possibly one of, if not the, fastest PLL case (the H perm) next to last because it has the lowest probability of occurrence. You asked for "bang for your buck" and that is how my list is tailored. I have not listed first the algs that are fastest, but again the algs with highest probability of occurrence come first.

Hope this helps,
Chris

 

[Dene]

I think the best thing you can do is work out how long it takes you to do each step. Once you have done that, post back here with the times, and we can direct you from there. It's very hard for us to just throw out suggestions, when there is so much that could be going wrong.

Personally I see no reason why you wouldn't improve to sub1 within a couple of weeks of practise. (Although then again I find it hard to judge as I learnt to solve a cube many years before I got into speedsolving).

 

[ryannn]

In addition to DcF1337's comments I recommend to learn the following, in the following order. If you already know the thing mentioned, you are just one step ahead. Keep in mind that you asked us the plan with the most "bang for your buck". My list is crafted to give you the cases with the highest probability of occurrence first, so that the most useful algs come first, and the least useful algs come last. I am assuming in your beginner version of PLL that you already know the U perm and A perm. When cases have an equal probability to occur I've listed first the ones that most people would agree tend to be faster algorithms to execute.

1) Learn all 4 versions of the G perm (PLL case). Probability of seeing this case during PLL is roughly 22%

2) J perm (PLL case)

3) R perm (PLL case)

4) T perm (PLL case)

5) V perm (PLL case)

6) Y perm (PLL case)

7) F perm (PLL case)

8) Z perm (PLL case)

9) E perm (PLL case)

10) N perm (PLL case)

11) H perm (PLL case)

12) Learn tricks for F2L like empty slot cases. Search for "empty slot" on this forum or on Google to find some examples.

Doing just that should be enough to get you around 1 minute, if not sub-60. Also, some people will probably greatly disagree with the order I have listed the permutations, as I have put possibly one of, if not the, fastest PLL case (the H perm) next to last because it has the lowest probability of occurrence. You asked for "bang for your buck" and that is how my list is tailored. I have not listed first the algs that are fastest, but again the algs with highest probability of occurrence come first.

Hope this helps,
Chris

Thanks alot, Exactly what I was looking for.

one last question, would learning these be more beneficial than 2look OLL's

one more last question
If my flawed logic is correct, doing these algorithms backward on a solved cube would allow me to replicate said instance?

 

[(X)]

What to do: practise most begginners methods can be used to achieve 1 minute average

 

[eastamazonantidote]

For all but the G's (who switch 3 edges/corners) just performing the algorithm gets you the case. It's an easy way to practice PLLs; just keep going until it solves itself.

But finger speed looks like it may be a problem. Some say do R U R' U' over and over, but I found that these two did wonders for my speed:

R U R' U R U2 R' U (Sune)
L' U' L U' L' U'2 L U' (Anti-Sune)

This promotes more stability in your movements over the extreme repetitiveness of R U R' U'.

But like everyone has said, just practice. Scramble your cube before bed and solve it when you wake up. Cube on the bus (my chance to show off), at Starbucks, just cube whenever, wherever, no matter what the social norm may be.

 

[mrbiggs]

There's also the factor of time management. You might not be able to devote two hours to practice, but if you carry a cube around you'll be surprised at the time you can find. I've spent a lot of time practicing on the subway, or waiting for someone to show up to something, or any number of other things. A few quick solves won't get you sub-15, but when you're sup-1 (or indeed sup 30), it's practice and not algorithms that will get you faster.


(That's not to say you shouldn't learn algorithms. Just that they will only reduce your time by a few seconds at this point.)

 

[JTW2007]

I browse this forum from time to time trying not to make useless posts

Thank you so much. More people should do this...

Anyway, work on your F2L. Just memorizing algs is not the secret to cubing, nor can it make you insanely fast. You need to have a high understanding of the way the cube works before you can become fast. Learn intuitive F2L, and practice on a metronome in order to develop lookahead. Then you can work on your alg based stuff.

 

[Dene]

For all but the G's (who switch 3 edges/corners) just performing the algorithm gets you the case. It's an easy way to practice PLLs; just keep going until it solves itself.

Well not quite but you have the right idea.
Many of the PLLs are only involve 2 swaps. The ones that have one 2 swap of edges and one 2 swap of corners will all get to the case by using the algorithm, and then will solve using the same algorithm, and so on ad infinitum. These are:
J, R, T, V, F, Y, N.

The one's that swap 2 pairs of edges will also do the same thing as before. These are:
Z, H.

Then there is the two 2 swap of corners:
E

The G perms actually involve a 3 cycle of corners and a 3 cycle of edges. This means that you have to perform the algorithm twice to get to the case. Performing the algorithm once will get to the inverse case, which happens to be one of the other G perms.
Then there are the pure 3 cycles of edges (U perm) and corners (A perm) which work the same way as the G's in this manner.

 

[Ranzha]

Using edges-first F2L and 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL, I can't see why you're not getting sub-90 seconds.
Which is it: is it F2L, OLL, or PLL in which you have the most trouble?
Also, I bet many people on this forum would also say that looking ahead greatly benefits you as much as fast algorithms does. Combine those two and you will sure have a sub-60 average.

Also,

I think the best thing you can do is work out how long it takes you to do each step. Once you have done that, post back here with the times, and we can direct you from there. It's very hard for us to just throw out suggestions, when there is so much that could be going wrong.

That can't be truer. Time yourself on how long it takes you to perform each step and substep (as in, cross, first slot of F2L, second-fourth, OLL #1, OLL #2, PLL #1, and PLL #2). This way, you can improve on each step/substep you can. You should establish a quick and almost thoughtless F2L, followed by quick transition into OLL and then into PLL.

As to learning algorithms, learn full PLL and then MGLS. MGLS really helps, and when you've done ELS and CLS, you only have PLL left.
MGLS works like do 3/4 F2L, solve the last slot and OLL at the same time, then PLL.

Also, the best way I've accomplished getting fairly good times (average nonlucky is 40ish, PB nonlucky is 28.74) is by learning new methods and taking bits and pieces from them and putting them into your own organised method.

Tell me what you think.

Hope this helps!
--Ranzha V E

 

[ben1996123]

I really have nothing to say, because you should really be getting sub 1 average with intuitive F2L, 2 look oll and 2 look pll. I use the same method, but with full PLL and I have averaged under 18.5 seconds a few times, with a regular average of just over 20 seconds.

 

[ryan.p.powers]

If you are at 2 mins, then you are not solving the first 2 layers fast enough. Forget about the 3rd layer for now. Most time is spent (for anyone) on F2L. Try to do the cross in 10 secs. It's good that you have learned Friedrich F2L, but it takes a lot of practice to get good at it. Solve the first 2 layers, mess the cube up and do it again and again. Once you get that time down, then start working on the 3rd layer.

That's my advice. I'm no expert. I was at around 2 mins about 5 months ago. Now my average is around 1 minute. I got there from improving F2L. Now I am starting to learn 3rd layer OLL and PLL algs.

 

[StachuK1992]

09-26-2009 07:12 PM

 

[Cool Frog]

For all but the G's (who switch 3 edges/corners) just performing the algorithm gets you the case. It's an easy way to practice PLLs; just keep going until it solves itself.

But finger speed looks like it may be a problem. Some say do R U R' U' over and over, but I found that these two did wonders for my speed:

R U R' U R U2 R' U (Sune)
L' U' L U' L' U'2 L U' (Anti-Sune)

This promotes more stability in your movements over the extreme repetitiveness of R U R' U'.

But like everyone has said, just practice. Scramble your cube before bed and solve it when you wake up. Cube on the bus (my chance to show off), at Starbucks, just cube whenever, wherever, no matter what the social norm may be.

lol i was in wonder works today and and a bunch of people where like look( to their kids) how fast that boy does that thing like the one you have at home. the algorithm i do the most is t perm and j perm just love how fluid it is, seems to have improved my R U R' U' and R' F R F' trigger ( And practicing every where is so true)