Why you should learn COLL for 4x4x4

blah

brah
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Disclaimer: This is nothing new. Just some numbers trying to convince you to do what the thread title says.

After doing your OLL parity alg which pops up half the time, assuming you're not stupid, your chances of getting an LL with all edges oriented is 5/16 on a 4x4x4, as opposed to 1/8 on a 3x3x3. In other words, you're 2.5 times as likely to get an LL with all edges oriented on a 4x4x4 than on a 3x3x3. Another way to put it (probably sounds more convincing to laymen) is COLL is 250% as useful on a 4x4x4 as it is on a 3x3x3.

After COLL, the probability of getting a PLL skip is 1/24, as opposed to 1/288 if you just did your usual alg. So you're 12 times as likely to get a PLL skip with COLL as you are without, that's 1200% (not 120%, it's 1200%).

After COLL, the probability of getting a 1-look PLL is 17/24 (I consider PLL skip a 0-look PLL although there's a 3/4 chance of a required AUF), as opposed to slightly more than 1/2 (I didn't bother counting) if you just did your usual alg. That's almost 1.5 times as likely (it's a little less than 1.5). Edit: I found a better way to put this. Without COLL, approximately half the time, you need to do 2-look PLL; with COLL, exactly 1/4 of the time, you need to do a 2-look PLL, AND the second PLL is always a U perm, read on to find out how to achieve this.

And finally, with COLL:
  • 3/4 of the time you're gonna get a 0-look or 1-look PLL
  • 1/6 of the time you can do PLL parity alg from any direction and get a U perm anyway (which means you save time and moves not doing unnecessary AUFs)
  • 1/12 of the time you have to do "the other PLL parity alg" (the one that swaps 2 adjacent edges) to get a U perm, otherwise you get an annoying Z perm, and fortunately enough for you, there are only 2 such cases and they're easy to recognize - opposite colors are opposite each other (try your best to understand this, it's really easy to recognize but not easy to describe :o)

Oh, and COLL is really easy to learn - more than half of them are intuitive. "Intuitive" here does not mean the exact same thing as it does in "intuitive F2L". "Intuitive" here is like: I know that Niklas is a commutator, and all commutators are intuitive, but when I execute Niklas, I'm not really thinking commutators; heck I'm not even thinking, I'm just executing it like any other alg. But learning/memorizing the alg is easy because it's just a commutator.

Edit: I don't have proof or stats for this, but I guess it's pretty obvious that the (execution time on 4x4x4) : (execution time on 3x3x3) ratio for a <R,U> 2-gen alg is lower than that for a non <R,U> 2-gen alg.

Edit: This thread's probably not gonna get any replies, is it? :o
 
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With that, I will pick up a few algos for COLL.

Off-topic: aren't you working and said you have no time for stuff like these?

I have no time to pick up a cube and practice. I have time while sitting/standing on a bus/train, while waiting for a bus/train, while having lunch, while having dinner, and right now at 3 in the morning. Doesn't take more than 5 minutes to do a couple of probability calculations, and I don't even have my calculator with me now :o
 
Since learning COLL, I've given up on using it on 3x3. it seems like too much of a waste, since my EPLLs aren't much faster than the rest. On bigcubes, I love using it though, because OLLs are somewhat awkward to begin with, and U perms can be so much faster than other algs. My recognition is still horrible, but I'm working on that :p
 
Since learning COLL, I've given up on using it on 3x3. it seems like too much of a waste, since my EPLLs aren't much faster than the rest.
Ditto.

On bigcubes, I love using it though, because OLLs are somewhat awkward to begin with, and U perms can be so much faster than other algs.
Ditto.

My recognition is still horrible, but I'm working on that :p
No ditto. Recognition for COLL, or recognition for the paritied-EPLLs? Last I checked, you use hyperorientation for recognition, am I right? Why not try the "normal" recognition system? There's definitely at least one benefit - no cube tilts/rotations for recognition. Besides, how often do you get NMCxLL if you don't use Roux? I disagree with how Dan Harris and Lars Vandenbergh and Jason Baum AUF to recognize the cases. I always thought my system that I discovered on my own was the "common" system that everyone uses since it's so intuitive, but so far I haven't seen anyone else who uses it, but then again, I've only been at COLL for a week or so. So maybe I have to look around a little more :p I'll share it here once I'm sure no one else uses it, to make sure I don't look like a moron.

And you type 2 spaces after every period :p
 
blah: Hyperorientations isn't the problem, its just that I'm bad at remember which alg goes to which case fast enough for certain orientations :p Not all of the hyperorientations even work for NMCxLL anyway.

As for the 2 space thing, my mom taught me that when I first started papers for school and it has totally stuck with me. It sometimes messes me up on some typing tests, but as Stachu said, it's common practice.
 
As for the 2 space thing, my mom taught me that when I first started papers for school and it has totally stuck with me. It sometimes messes me up on some typing tests, but as Stachu said, it's common practice.
Yeah. On longer essays, it'll actually add a good few lines to your paper, without having to do things like increasing your font, decreasing your margins, or other easy-to-stop "cheats."
 
One is supposed to type two spaces after the end of each sentence. I've been doing so for two years.

I used to do that years ago for typewritten pages. Then I learned that word processors now expect just a single space after a period. Otherwise a new line might be broken between the 2 spaces, causing the next sentence to begin on the next line with a leading space. Maybe some (all?) processors solved this problem over the years.
 
You're definitely right about the 2.5 bit... that's convinced me that it might be worthwhile to learn. Do you have a list of good COLL algs (for 4x4) somewhere?

I use the same ones as i do for 3x3 they all work enough and i have no problems comfort-wise with them.

http://jmbaum.110mb.com/coll.htm

of course you can modify the algs slightly for you personal style which shouldnt take more then a min of thought :D
 
After COLL, the probability of getting a PLL skip is 1/24, as opposed to 1/288 if you just did your usual alg. So you're 12 times as likely to get an LL skip with COLL as you are without, that's 1200% (not 120%, it's 1200%).
You mean PLL skip instead of LL skip?

I use about 14-15 COLLs right now for 3x3 and higher. I don't use them all mainly because of how bad the algorithms are compared to the best algorithm for that OLL. For example, let's say for a certain COLL case:

Sune - ~0.8 sec
G perm - ~2.0 sec

COLL for that Sune - ~2.1 sec
U perm - ~1.4 sec

Also, according to your data, COLL would be useful especially on any even numbered cube, 4x4 and higher.
 
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Well as a Petrus user I find the oll's with all edges oriented incredibly nice, and I don't use COLL, but then again I've never really tried it. I've heard recog is actually slower and that makes sense to me too. Oh and on top of that the post above me says the algs are bad =\.
 
Well as a Petrus user I find the oll's with all edges oriented incredibly nice, and I don't use COLL, but then again I've never really tried it. I've heard recog is actually slower and that makes sense to me too. Oh and on top of that the post above me says the algs are bad =\.

I know all the Pi, Double Sune, and Triple Sune cases. They are all fast algs.
I know most of Headlights and Chameleon and they aren't bad either. All the COLL algs I know so far can be executed in less than 1.5 seconds. Many of them are simple 8 or 9 move commutators. I know the COLL algs for Sune, but I can't recognize them (Niklas, Sune, Bob, Buffy, and Anti-Buffy are pretty fast LUR algs, but I don't really like Doug Li's move.)

http://lar5.com/cube/yB.html

Edit:

Show me a case that "sucks hard." The average COLL should be faster than the average PLL. No COLL case is anywhere near as slow as N or E perms.
 
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1/12 of the time you have to do "the other PLL parity alg" (the one that swaps 2 adjacent edges) to get a U perm, otherwise you get an annoying Z or H perm, and fortunately enough for you, there are only 2 such cases and they're easy to recognize - opposite colors are opposite each other (try your best to understand this, it's really easy to recognize but not easy to describe :o)

Unless you have severe brain damage you should never get H-perm after PLL parity.

And I agree that a lot of COLL cases suck hard, but some are quite useful.
 
After COLL, the probability of getting a PLL skip is 1/24, as opposed to 1/288 if you just did your usual alg. So you're 12 times as likely to get an LL skip with COLL as you are without, that's 1200% (not 120%, it's 1200%).
You mean PLL skip instead of LL skip?

I use about 14-15 COLLs right now for 3x3 and higher. I don't use them all mainly because of how bad the algorithms are compared to the best algorithm for that OLL. For example, let's say for a certain COLL case:

Sune - ~0.8 sec
G perm - ~2.0 sec

COLL for that Sune - ~2.1 sec
U perm - ~1.4 sec

Also, according to your data, COLL would be useful especially on any even numbered cube, 4x4 and higher.

dude... sune COLL cases are the worst thing ever. Period.
 
After COLL, the probability of getting a PLL skip is 1/24, as opposed to 1/288 if you just did your usual alg. So you're 12 times as likely to get an LL skip with COLL as you are without, that's 1200% (not 120%, it's 1200%).
You mean PLL skip instead of LL skip?
Uh, yeah. Thanks for pointing that out :) As I've mentioned, it was 3 in the morning when I did this :p

1/12 of the time you have to do "the other PLL parity alg" (the one that swaps 2 adjacent edges) to get a U perm, otherwise you get an annoying Z or H perm, and fortunately enough for you, there are only 2 such cases and they're easy to recognize - opposite colors are opposite each other (try your best to understand this, it's really easy to recognize but not easy to describe :o)

Unless you have severe brain damage you should never get H-perm after PLL parity.
Yes, as a matter of fact, I did have severe brain damage due to severe lack of sleep last night. My bad. Thanks for pointing that out too :)

dude... sune COLL cases are the worst thing ever. Period.
To execute? I don't know, yet. To recognize? Not at all. It's definitely as easy as any other COLL case, well at least it is when I use my recognition system.

By the way I use RUL algs (mostly) for COLL, because 1. I learned COLL for OH and it's been tremendously useful, and 2. I prefer RUL algs to RFU ones on big cubes, I just lock up less.
 
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