can WV be a substitute for not learning OLLs?

[chimpzi]

i'm into 2look OLL and i am wondering if i could just learn winter variation or F2LL so that i dont have to memo all the OLLs..

currently, im studying partial edge control, specificcally case1 of the ZBf2l where corner-edge pair is connectd.

is it ok?..
any comments or suggestions are very welcome.
thanks!>..

 

[deco122392]

hmm thats similar to what im learning. and yes it could work, but its a atter of preference. i see nothing wrong with oll/ pll except for the oll algs, which really arnt that bad.but if your going to take that (the wv pll approach that is) approach then i also recommend you mess around with partial edge control abit more then just when the c/e pair is formed, just for a better understanding of it.

 

[ThePizzaGuy92]

theres no easy way to get sub-15s, i say go for the OLLs.

 

[chimpzi]

theres no easy way to get sub-15s, i say go for the OLLs.

yeah, i'm not even stable at sub25..argh

i know its faster to know all OLLs but i prefer to not learn all of them because i dont own much of my time, im busy at school and others.
and im afraid that if i memo it, i will eventually forget some or many of them specially if i dont cube for a week or more.

if your going to take that (the wv pll approach that is) approach then i also recommend you mess around with partial edge control abit more then just when the c/e pair is formed, just for a better understanding of it

yup!..im studying partial edge control with connected f2l pair,.
but i think there is some weak points in WV.
1. if the last f2l pair is not connected[like R U R' insertion cases] + the partial edge cotrol for the R U R' cases are somewhat difficult to learn. IMO
2. if you dont know how to do inverses or mirrors, it will only be useful for only one angle. so it cant be used all of the time.

just a thought: can i just memo those algs in wv with 3edges oriented?. then apply it considering only the corners so it will be like orienting corners then orient edges?.. ouch, that's still 2-look OLL..

 

[soccerking813]

Honestly I would just stay with regular 2-look OLL, and maybe partial edge control so that you have at least 2 edges oriented in the last layer. I think that doing either F R U R' U' F' or the other short alg is a lot faster than recognising what case you have for the last pair and executing it.

 

[King Koopa]

I agree with soccerking813, just stick with 2 look OLL atleast until you get faster. I average 12-13 and I still don't know all the OLLs

 

[byu]

Agreed with two posts above. Don't learn OLLs until sub-20

 

[puzzlemaster]

Agreed with two posts above. Don't learn OLLs until sub-20

it would appear as if you're not sub-20 yet according to your WCA stats.

 

[Mr Cubism]

Agreed with two posts above. Don't learn OLLs until sub-20

There are at least a few exceptions:

First and second case are "for free" if you just know in what position they shall be in. The 3rd one is easy, and if you already know the first "T", why not know the second too?!

 

[a small kitten]

Shouldn't it depend on your method? I'm sub 20 with ZZ and I have absolutely no intention to learn any more OLLs than the 8 or 9 I already know.

 

[JohnnyA]

Shouldn't it depend on your method? I'm sub 20 with ZZ and I have absolutely no intention to learn any more OLLs than the 8 or 9 I already know.

WV in your case could be a substitute for the cross OLLs you currently use, so you orient as you insert the last pair.

 

[EmersonHerrmann]

currently, im studying partial edge control, specificcally case1 of the ZBf2l where corner-edge pair is connectd.

is it ok?..
any comments or suggestions are very welcome.
thanks!>..

ZBF2L is full edge control.

 

[brunson]

I see an interesting correlation. People that don't know full OLL recommend against learning them. Those that do say, "Just suck it up and do it".

 

[Ellis]

I see an interesting correlation. People that don't know full OLL recommend against learning them. Those that do say, "Just suck it up and do it".

I know all OLL's and I say wait, it's not that important. I feel like it's easier to learn and retain them if you have more general experience.

Agreed with two posts above. Don't learn OLLs until sub-20

it would appear as if you're not sub-20 yet according to your WCA stats.

Surely you can't use just that to determine being sub-20. I only have one official sub-20 solve (at the same comp as byu), and I have sub-16 averages of 12 and a 16.93 average of 100.

 

[Neroflux]

Agreed with two posts above. Don't learn OLLs until sub-20

it would appear as if you're not sub-20 yet according to your WCA stats.

Surely you can't use just that to determine being sub-20. I only have one official sub-20 solve (at the same comp as byu), and I have sub-16 averages of 12 and a 16.93 average of 100.

must have been a really stressful comp lol.

 

[Escher]

Agreed with two posts above. Don't learn OLLs until sub-20

it would appear as if you're not sub-20 yet according to your WCA stats.

Surely you can't use just that to determine being sub-20. I only have one official sub-20 solve (at the same comp as byu), and I have sub-16 averages of 12 and a 16.93 average of 100.

must have been a really stressful comp lol.

(hmm, im posting too much today...)
I'm way worse - look at my profile. I just set a sub 13 avg of 12 PB, I'm sub 5 on 2x2, sub 1:15 on 4x4 and ~32s OH. I seem to have improved meteorically recently (the holidays help), but still... :rolleyes:

 

[deco122392]

currently, im studying partial edge control, specificcally case1 of the ZBf2l where corner-edge pair is connectd.

is it ok?..
any comments or suggestions are very welcome.
thanks!>..

ZBF2L is full edge control.

why the need to clarify? Chimpzi knows this based on him stating that hes working on the first set of cases for zb(vh f2l?), were the last c/e pair is already formed.

also ive been thinking.
your solve would be something like this if im correct in understanding what it is that your trying to learn.:

solve f2l normally until last c/e pair
use zb algs to pair up last c/e pair and orient ll edges
use wv alg to insert last c/e pair while orienting ll corners
pll

in contrast to:

normal f2l
oll
pll

is this correct?

although i advocate learning the wv algs it seems more practical to just learn the oll algs little by little over time and add the wv algs to your collections of ll (or in this case f2ll) algs after so that you can aply them when usefull.

of course this (most of what ive written above) is all non applicable if your useing something like petrus or zz were i think mgls, zbll, zzll, or wv/pll is better.

(these is just my opinion of course, and you are free to do as you please)

 

[chimpzi]

Agreed with two posts above. Don't learn OLLs until sub-20

There are at least a few exceptions:

First and second case are "for free" if you just know in what position they shall be in. The 3rd one is easy, and if you already know the first "T", why not know the second too?!

i already know the two T's, one using the LLcross alg, andthe other one from the the Y-perm.
the first case, is that alg from badmephisto's site? i think i saw that last night.



@deco
last f2l pair is still intuitive but i insert it using case1 of zbf2l.


actually, i have a problem on my LL. it takes me 7-10secs to complete. sometimes 10+ if recognition is bad. i can do it in 5secs if it is 1look OLL then an easy PLL.
now, it amaze me knowing that you could actually influence your LL to skip OLL. but it seems like your still doing OLL because of the additional algs but you do it while inserting the last pair. another downside is the recognition.

i think there is no easy way to get faster..

guess i have to stick with 2look OLL.
learn partial edge control by hearT?..
then learn all the dot cases of OLL?.. what do you think guys?..
argh!... but its really nice to skip OLL...

 

[deco122392]

@deco
last f2l pair is still intuitive but i insert it using case1 of zbf2l.


i think there is no easy way to get faster..

guess i have to stick with 2look OLL.
learn partial edge control by hearT?..
then learn all the dot cases of OLL?.. what do you think guys?..
argh!... but its really nice to skip OLL...

if your inserting the pair with a zbf2l alg then youll have to do one of 7 (or was it 8) oll cases
the point of wv algs is to insert the c/e pair and orient the ll corners in one alg.

 

[chimpzi]

@deco
last f2l pair is still intuitive but i insert it using case1 of zbf2l.


i think there is no easy way to get faster..

guess i have to stick with 2look OLL.
learn partial edge control by hearT?..
then learn all the dot cases of OLL?.. what do you think guys?..
argh!... but its really nice to skip OLL...

if your inserting the pair with a zbf2l alg then youll have to do one of 7 (or was it 8) oll cases
the point of wv algs is to insert the c/e pair and orient the ll corners in one alg.

what i am thinking is to actually skip OLL. but i think it is impossible to do everytime.

i read some posts about wv, COLL and ELL, in comparison with each other, then i guess i will learn wv as an additional knwledge then apply it whenever convenient.