Snigel's progression thread (dabbling in bigger cubes)

[OreKehStrah]

Today was a weird day. I started off with the most awesome streak ever and easily got below 30 ao12 (28.95) and lowered my ao100 a bit, too. Then I remembered that I said I would film some solves today and proceeded to not even be able to get five solves below my previously recorded ao5 from last week (which was 37.xx). Nothing worked. I lost pieces, forgot which colour was where, accidentally dislodged the cross, messed upp OLL, and so on. Terribly frustrating! I then took a longer break and finally recorded something which was more in line with my ao100:

1: 28.85 B2 U2 F' U2 L2 R2 F L2 R2 B R2 F' R' B' D' L2 R B' R' U'
2: 32.57+ R D2 R2 D2 U2 R2 F R2 B' L2 B' L2 F L D' L' F' D L2 B' D'
3: (28.20) D2 U' L2 F2 D B2 R2 U' R2 D2 U' B' D L' B' L' B2 L B2 R
4: (47.54)* B2 R' L' U L' F2 R B2 D2 R2 B2 L2 F2 L2 D L2 U' B2 U' F
5: 33.71 L2 F L2 B2 U2 L2 R2 B L2 F2 D2 L B F' L2 U' F' L R B2

Average: 31.71 (0.05 from my best ao100, so this is representative)

+ I think I hit stop before the last turn, so added a +2 here, although it hardly matters.
* I messed up the OLL badly here, so basically did one and a half solves.

Priority list

1. Stop moving before knowing what the goal is
2. Learn F2L cases where the two pieces are connected
3. Do more slow solves; timing and filming isn't the point

Couple things I'm noticing from just the first solve:

1. Scramble Green front white top, that's the WCA scrambling orientation and will prevent miscommunication
2. Don't regrip you hand to do B move insertions into the back. You should just rotate for now.
3. Work on improving your cross solutions. In that first solve, to place the last edge you should do D R' D' R instead of R U R' F2 in most cases just as an example.

 

[Aergyl]

Couple things I'm noticing from just the first solve:

1. Scramble Green front white top, that's the WCA scrambling orientation and will prevent miscommunication
2. Don't regrip you hand to do B move insertions into the back. You should just rotate for now.
3. Work on improving your cross solutions. In that first solve, to place the last edge you should do D R' D' R instead of R U R' F2 in most cases just as an example.

I think you meant just D R' D'. Otherwise I agree! I was just going to point that out, lol. Jperm has some really good videos on how to make a good cross and I strongly recommend watching them!

 

[Snigel]

1. Scramble Green front white top, that's the WCA scrambling orientation and will prevent miscommunication
2. Don't regrip you hand to do B move insertions into the back. You should just rotate for now.
3. Work on improving your cross solutions. In that first solve, to place the last edge you should do D R' D' R instead of R U R' F2 in most cases just as an example.

1. Thanks, I didn't know that! I use my orientation for blind, so I just do it by habit for normal 3x3 as well. I'll switch from now on!
2. This is what I find hardest now (to know when to do awkward moves and when to rotate). Thanks for the feedback!
3. Good point! I think the problem is that I avoid D moves subconsciously because I'm afraid of messing up the cross. I'm not confident enough with my cross to know that pieces are where they are supposed to be, but this shouldn't take too long to get over.

 

[Snigel]

I think you meant just D R' D'. Otherwise I agree! I was just going to point that out, lol. Jperm has some really good videos on how to make a good cross and I strongly recommend watching them!

Yeah, I understand exactly, and I also watched that video! Right now, I'm just struggling to implement everything in actual solves. But this kind of advice is extremely helpful. If you see anything else that is bad (considering my level, obviously, as otherwise everything is bad), do let me know!

 

[OreKehStrah]

Yeah, I understand exactly, and I also watched that video! Right now, I'm just struggling to implement everything in actual solves. But this kind of advice is extremely helpful. If you see anything else that is bad (considering my level, obviously, as otherwise everything is bad), do let me know!

Yeah I would highly recommend you do a LOT of untimed solves so you don't have the mental pressure of a timer affecting your though process. Basically any time you are trying to improve solutions or work on implementing new things into your solves, you should do untimed solves to first get comfortable with using the new algs or experimenting with different solutions. Then you will be able to use them in timed solves much more effectively!

 

[Snigel]

I've resolved to not time any solves for a week and focus only on slow solves trying to learn more efficient cross and F2L. I'll get back to do more timed solves next week, but might post here if I have something interesting to write about. Thanks for the input so far!

 

[CornerTwisted]

maybe you should try to learn eocross, its quite similar to petrus and gives you an oll case you know.

 

[artless1der]

maybe you should try to learn eocross, its quite similar to petrus and gives you an oll case you know.

any good videos and/or links?

 

[OreKehStrah]

any good videos and/or links?

It's just ZZ with cross instead of EOLine.

Here's the best EO tutorial. Coming from a Petrus background this should just be review.

And here is the EOStep trainer website. You can train just EO, EOLine, and EOCross with it, and train by length of solution or number of bad edges.

crystalcube trainers

speedcubing trainers for CFOP and ZZ

crystalcube.app

 

[Aergyl]

maybe you should try to learn eocross, its quite similar to petrus and gives you an oll case you know.

I'm not a ZZ solver, but I'm pretty sure EOCross is pretty advanced and it will take a lot of practice to make it worth using compared to a normal CFOP cross, if it ever can be in the first place. In any case, I don't think it's the best way to start for someone just starting to learn CFOP.

 

[Snigel]

maybe you should try to learn eocross, its quite similar to petrus and gives you an oll case you know.

I actually already took the time to learn full OLL, so I know all of them now! Joking aside, I think this looks a bit too advanced for me at the moment. I mean, I hardly know how to solve the most common awkward F2L casses, so I should probably focus on that first, but thanks for the suggestion; I like the idea!

 

[artless1der]

It's just ZZ with cross instead of EOLine.

Here's the best EO tutorial. Coming from a Petrus background this should just be review.

And here is the EOStep trainer website. You can train just EO, EOLine, and EOCross with it, and train by length of solution or number of bad edges.

crystalcube trainers

speedcubing trainers for CFOP and ZZ

crystalcube.app

Thanks!
haha so far all my knowledge of ZZ comes from some ZBLL alg videos and Phil Yu's ZZ tutorial playlist

 

[Snigel]

A week has now passed since my previous timed solves, so for obvious reasons, I haven't broken any PBs, but I did add an ao500 (35.24) to the stats on the first page for future reference. I've spent the previous week doing the following:

1. Slow solves
2. Practising cross only (can do 50% of cases in inspection)
3. Practising specific F2L cases, focusing on the following
   • All cases where the two pieces are connected in the top layer
   • Some easy no-rotation inserts (such as M U L F' L' U' M' and its mirror)
   • Generally trying to think about what I'm supposed to do before doing it
   • Trying to pay more attention to look ahead whenever I can

I did a few timed solves just for fun, but I have worse times than last week. That's to be expected, because I haven't fully internalised much of the above, so I think it's better to go slow and do them rather than fall back on whatever I used to do before to save a second or two. I will do more time solves for a few days at least before going back to slow solves, because I do think it's quite fun!

 

[OreKehStrah]

A week has now passed since my previous timed solves, so for obvious reasons, I haven't broken any PBs, but I did add an ao500 (35.24) to the stats on the first page for future reference. I've spent the previous week doing the following:

1. Slow solves
2. Practising cross only (can do 50% of cases in inspection)
3. Practising specific F2L cases, focusing on the following
   • All cases where the two pieces are connected in the top layer
   • Some easy no-rotation inserts (such as M U L F' L' U' M' and its mirror)
   • Generally trying to think about what I'm supposed to do before doing it
   • Trying to pay more attention to look ahead whenever I can

I did a few timed solves just for fun, but I have worse times than last week. That's to be expected, because I haven't fully internalised much of the above, so I think it's better to go slow and do them rather than fall back on whatever I used to do before to save a second or two. I will do more time solves for a few days at least before going back to slow solves, because I do think it's quite fun!

I think you might have made a mistake with your rotationless insert example. That solves an already rotation less case in the front right slot.
I would also advise you no be very cautious with implementing those kinds of solutions. They aren't always the fastest to execute and tend to also make look ahead more difficult than a more basic solution.

The only rotationless cases I would recommend maybe using for now would be f R f' , f R' f' and their lefty mirrors.

 

[Snigel]

I think you might have made a mistake with your rotationless insert example. That solves an already rotation less case in the front right slot.
I would also advise you no be very cautious with implementing those kinds of solutions. They aren't always the fastest to execute and tend to also make look ahead more difficult than a more basic solution.

The only rotationless cases I would recommend maybe using for now would be f R f' , f R' f' and their lefty mirrors.

Not a mistake in my notation, but rather a misunderstanding on my part, I think. The way I would normally solve that case would be like so: y L' U L y' U2 (R U R'). How can I solve this rotation-less without having a ton of awkward moves? The only solution I can find without rotations or wide moves is: (R U R') U2 (R U' R' U) (R U' R'), which is very long, although it can be executed fast. Is that preferred over the one with wide moves I posted earlier, or am i missing something obvious? When I don't know what to do, I usually check Jperm's PDF or this one on Cube Skills for inspiration, but I don't see anything better than the long one I just mentioned.

I learnt this wide-move alg because Jperm said it was one of the few of these worth doing, and all the other cases where pieces are connected in the top layer I can already do without rotations or wide moves. It does seem to make look ahead worse, but I'm so bad at that at the moment that I'm not in a position to evaluate how much it would influence OLL recognition anyway.

 

[OreKehStrah]

Not a mistake in my notation, but rather a misunderstanding on my part, I think. The way I would normally solve that case would be like so: y L' U L y' U2 (R U R'). How can I solve this rotation-less without having a ton of awkward moves? The only solution I can find without rotations or wide moves is: (R U R') U2 (R U' R' U) (R U' R'), which is very long, although it can be executed fast. Is that preferred over the one with wide moves I posted earlier, or am i missing something obvious? When I don't know what to do, I usually check Jperm's PDF or this one on Cube Skills for inspiration, but I don't see anything better than the long one I just mentioned.

I learnt this wide-move alg because Jperm said it was one of the few of these worth doing, and all the other cases where pieces are connected in the top layer I can already do without rotations or wide moves. It does seem to make look ahead worse, but I'm so bad at that at the moment that I'm not in a position to evaluate how much it would influence OLL recognition anyway.

Here are 4 other solutions to consider for that F2L case without rotations:

R' U' R2 U' R' U R' U R2 U' R'
R U' R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 // Regrip to thumb on the bottom for this alg
(U2) R U R' U' R' D' R U R' D R
R F U R' U' R F' U' R' // You use the right ring finger to do the F moves

The RU alg you shared is also okay. In general longer RU algs are usually fine because they tend to be more ergonomic and easier to execute quickly.

 

[Aergyl]

A week has now passed since my previous timed solves, so for obvious reasons, I haven't broken any PBs, but I did add an ao500 (35.24) to the stats on the first page for future reference. I've spent the previous week doing the following:

1. Slow solves
2. Practising cross only (can do 50% of cases in inspection)
3. Practising specific F2L cases, focusing on the following
   • All cases where the two pieces are connected in the top layer
   • Some easy no-rotation inserts (such as M U L F' L' U' M' and its mirror)
   • Generally trying to think about what I'm supposed to do before doing it
   • Trying to pay more attention to look ahead whenever I can

I did a few timed solves just for fun, but I have worse times than last week. That's to be expected, because I haven't fully internalised much of the above, so I think it's better to go slow and do them rather than fall back on whatever I used to do before to save a second or two. I will do more time solves for a few days at least before going back to slow solves, because I do think it's quite fun!

I think this looks good for the most part! However, keep in mind that it's better to do U' R' U R U' R U R' or U L' U L' U R U R' instead of M U L F' L' U' M' if there are still unsolved adjacent slots. And if the diagonally opposite slot isn't solved, you might want to use something like y' R' U R U2 f R f' or (U2) y' L' U L f R f' instead for easier look ahead. The algorithm you mention can be useful for last slot, but there are other good options as well, like
F' U F U2 R U R'
F' U L' U L U2 F
(U) R' F R F' U R U R'
R U R' U2 R U' R' U R U' R'
R' D' R U' R' D R U R U' R'
(U2) R U R' U' R' D' R U R' D R
and knowing when it's best to use what is pretty advanced.

Also, I wouldn't worry to much about look ahead at this point. There's no harm in trying to use it, but I think it's better to practice and develop good F2L habits before you spend time dedicated to improving your look ahead.

 

[Snigel]

Here are 4 other solutions to consider for that F2L case without rotations:

R' U' R2 U' R' U R' U R2 U' R'
R U' R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 // Regrip to thumb on the bottom for this alg
(U2) R U R' U' R' D' R U R' D R
R F U R' U' R F' U' R' // You use the right ring finger to do the F moves

The RU alg you shared is also okay. In general longer RU algs are usually fine because they tend to be more ergonomic and easier to execute quickly.

Thank you! I'll try them out and stick with one of these for now, then!

Also, I checked your YouTube channel. Nice keyboards! I have considered getting an ortholinear keyboard (I think it's a Planck you have, right?), and I've been into mechanical keyboards for a while, although not very seriously recently.

 

[Snigel]

and knowing when it's best to use what is pretty advanced.

Also, I wouldn't worry to much about look ahead at this point. There's no harm in trying to use it, but I think it's better to practice and develop good F2L habits before you spend time dedicated to improving your look ahead.

I think I'll choose one of the 2-gen algs for that case and stick with that for now; I can always upgrade or add more later, but there are more urgent things to fix first before learning more ways to do the same thing. And as you say, choosing which one is best is too advanced at this point anyway.

Your point about look ahead is interesting, though. When I time solves, it feels like I spend half the time looking for the right pieces, so my intuitive conclusion was that improving look ahead even moderately would make the whole solve much more fluid. Maybe I'm using the word incorrectly here, I simply mean that it feels like a priority to learn to at least spot one piece I want in the next step while performing the current step.

Then again, it could also be the case that building better F2L habits is even more important. If that's the case, I should probably not do any timed solves at all until I have a better understanding of F2L, which will take much longer than a few weeks. What I'm not sure about is where to draw the line? I mean, in theory, I could not do any time solves for a year and only focus on understanding and learning all common F2L cases, which might yield better long-term results than what I'm doing now.

My goal here isn't to win competitions (I'm 39, so it's a bit late for that), so what I enjoy obviously plays into what strategy to use, but I do think that trying to improve is in itself interesting and enjoyable. I think I'll stick to doing timed solves one day a week or something like that, then spend the rest of the time improving F2L. If you (or anyone else) has any suggestions for how to build good habits for F2L, that would be more than welcome!

 

[OreKehStrah]

Thank you! I'll try them out and stick with one of these for now, then!

Also, I checked your YouTube channel. Nice keyboards! I have considered getting an ortholinear keyboard (I think it's a Planck you have, right?), and I've been into mechanical keyboards for a while, although not very seriously recently.

Lol, thanks! Yeah I have a couple Plancks and a Preonic as well.