Mefferts 7x7 and Holey Cube!!!

[qqwref]

I should've been more precise - what I meant was that the cubes are nowhere claimed to be Rubik's products, so they are not at all riding on the coattails of the Rubik's Cube. (Note that people are more open to twisty puzzles because of the cube's popularity, but this does not mean that twisty puzzle manufacturers somehow owe something to Rubik.) Of course P. Verdes was a fan of the Rubik's Cube, there's no way he would have tried to make higher-order mechanisms if he wasn't

 

[DavidCalvo]

I've nothing else to say or to argue. I don't want to start a dispute with any of you, since it makes NO SENSE AT ALL, although some of you would defend Konstantinos, for a bunch of v-cubes (and you are in your total right, and I have nothing against, of course). Anyway, there is much more issues involved you might not know.

http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=148679#p148679

 

[d4m4s74]

I already have a V-7 and I've made reservations for the meffert's "clone"
If mefferts is exactly the same, I'll just stick with verdes for my next bigcubes
if mefferts has the same mechanism but is better, I'll still stick with verdes
if mefferts has a superior cube with another mechanism, I'll switch to mefferts for my bigcubes

 

[MichaelErskine]

I already have a V-7 and I've made reservations for the meffert's "clone"

I fear that Meffert's are are counting these as votes of approval.

If mefferts is exactly the same, I'll just stick with verdes for my next bigcubes
if mefferts has the same mechanism but is better, I'll still stick with verdes
if mefferts has a superior cube with another mechanism, I'll switch to mefferts for my bigcubes

Apparently the mechanism is exactly the same - a total rip-off of the V-Cube 7. Here's an owner showing a partially disassembled puzzle...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_g_LDSs-Z0

 

[MTGjumper]

I don't agree with Mefferts copying the V-cube mechanism, considering the time and effort that was put into it by Verdes. It makes the 3x3 mechanism look incredibly simple.

(This post had more content before I realised I was an idiot )

 

[AvGalen]

PS: This is not just bad for verdes, this is bad for all of us too! Copyright laws exist partly to give an incentive to make new things. Every one of these that someone buys reduces the chance that we will ever see a v-4, v-3, v-8, or anything else.

So I take it that you'd rather see monopolies? Let's have more goods and services that are supplied by single firms, right?

I'm all for this; more competition means more consumer choices and also cheaper products for us. We, as cubers (especially poorer cubers), benefit.

Also, you fail to justify your conclusion; you instead jump to it. Besides, if you need a high quality cube to set fast times, then, you just need to get faster at cubing, period.

Are you sure this will lead to more consumer choice?
If I were a puzzle builder that has a plan for creating a revolutionairy and fun puzzle that will cost me 50000 Euro to invest before I can even sell 1......I wouldn't do it if I knew I would only see a Return-On-Investment of 30000 before somebody creates a clone (needing an investment of only 15000).

 

[panyan]

I purchased the 3 v-cubes and when I got them I noticed there were stickers on all 3 that were peeling off a bit. I contacted them and they sent out replacement stickers right away. I think they did a fantastic job fulfilling the order and am very happy with their service.

i got the set of three as well and the v6 and v7 had badly aligned stickers, some were coming off, some were fully of, etc. I contacted them and after weeks of sending photos back and forth they eventually sent my one set for my v7 and that wasn't even cut to size - i was disappointed

 

[MichaelErskine]

i got the set of three as well and the v6 and v7 had badly aligned stickers, some were coming off, some were fully of, etc.

Mine weren't quite so bad on my V-Cube 7 but there was definitely a problem with quality control in the early days with gaps in the 2-part pieces and stickers all over the place.

I haven't seen any recently produced/bought V-Cubes.

 

[abr71310]

I think that since V-cube did invent the mechanism (and hopefully thus the patents / copyrights that came with it), he should have full legal rights over what he decides to do with it.

If Meffert's decides to completely rip off the mechanism design and attempt to sell it without Verdes's prior knowledge, he should rot it hell. We have copyright laws in action for a reason.

I took a side, I won't fully stick to it if I'm logically flawed somewhere (I doubt I am in this case), but I'm just saying, from a Canadian Law perspective, this is totally out of line.

7% Royalty that you have to ASK FOR?
Also not in the copyright / royalty laws.

In order to even put it on the market you have to ask permission of the original inventor and work out a deal BEFORE you sell it.

If Verdes puts in a lawsuit, may he win the entire company.

 

[ExoCorsair]

Are you sure this will lead to more consumer choice?

In the short term, we'll see more products from which the consumer can choose.

...Already we have the Chinese 7x7x7s and V-Cubes, no?

 

[ExoCorsair]

There was a post in the TP forum recently saying that the survey was taken down... which it has been.

 

[Ethan Rosen]

Are you sure this will lead to more consumer choice?

In the short term, we'll see more products from which the consumer can choose.

...Already we have the Chinese 7x7x7s and V-Cubes, no?

It's very unfortunate when people make the wrong choices based on short term happiness rather than long term gain. Knockoffs discourage inventors from taking the time, effort, and money to put things on the market. For whatever reason twistypuzzles appears to be down for me right now, but earlier today the inventor of the void cube, the master pyraminx, the floppy cube, and many others has said that based on that mefferts email, he is immediately ceasing plans to mass produce puzzles such as the master pyraminx and the pyracue, which are both puzzles he has been talking with Meffert about producing.

 

[panyan]

^darn.....

 

[Drucifer]

i got the set of three as well and the v6 and v7 had badly aligned stickers, some were coming off, some were fully of, etc.

Mine weren't quite so bad on my V-Cube 7 but there was definitely a problem with quality control in the early days with gaps in the 2-part pieces and stickers all over the place.

I haven't seen any recently produced/bought V-Cubes.

I just got mine recently and here is a picture of all three of the v-cubes. Other than a few stickers that peeled off some they are great. This picture was taken by a friend.

 

[AvGalen]

Are you sure this will lead to more consumer choice?

In the short term, we'll see more products from which the consumer can choose.

...Already we have the Chinese 7x7x7s and V-Cubes, no?

Short term: yes
Long term: I really don't think so

Let's compare this to medicine: Doing enough research to cure a major disease might cost 10,000,000,000. If the resulting medicine would be used by 100,000,000 people every dose would have to cost at least 100. Production of that medicine might cost only 5 per dose
That means that a copy-cat could bring that medicine on the market for 10 and still make a big profit while the original manufacturer would need to sell it for at least 105 to break even.
In the short term, it would be very beneficial for the copy-cat (and all the sick people) to only pay 10. This would mean that the original manufacturer goes bankrupt.
In the long term, nobody is going to do research because of the fear for bankrupcy

(this example is looking purely from a financial point of view. Let's not get into a moral discussion about the balance between so many healthy people and 1 bankrupt manufacturer)

 

[ExoCorsair]

It's very unfortunate when people make the wrong choices based on short term happiness rather than long term gain.

It's unfortunate that people care about their own happiness instead of society's gain, you mean.

Which has its own slew of problems, but it would still have other problems if it weren't that way.

 

[Ethan Rosen]

It's very unfortunate when people make the wrong choices based on short term happiness rather than long term gain.

It's unfortunate that people care about their own happiness instead of society's gain, you mean.

Which has its own slew of problems, but it would still have other problems if it weren't that way.

Well assuming that you would be interested in buying puzzles that aren't out yet, I mean both personal and societal long term gain.

 

[Drucifer]

Wait, so I just tried the link in the original post again and the Holey cube and the Mefferts 7x7 are no longer on the page. Did they update it and remove it or am I just having a bad day?

http://mefferts.com/page.php?lang=en&theme=new_puzzle_release

 

[Paul Wagner]

the question isnt is it good too have a knowckoff the question is is it good, does it blend?

 

[ExoCorsair]

Wait, so I just tried the link in the original post again and the Holey cube and the Mefferts 7x7 are no longer on the page. Did they update it and remove it or am I just having a bad day?

http://mefferts.com/page.php?lang=en&theme=new_puzzle_release

Read the thread? http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141071&postcount=71

Let's compare this to medicine: Doing enough research to cure a major disease might cost 10,000,000,000. If the resulting medicine would be used by 100,000,000 people every dose would have to cost at least 100. Production of that medicine might cost only 5 per dose
That means that a copy-cat could bring that medicine on the market for 10 and still make a big profit while the original manufacturer would need to sell it for at least 105 to break even.
In the short term, it would be very beneficial for the copy-cat (and all the sick people) to only pay 10. This would mean that the original manufacturer goes bankrupt.
In the long term, nobody is going to do research because of the fear for bankrupcy

(this example is looking purely from a financial point of view. Let's not get into a moral discussion about the balance between so many healthy people and 1 bankrupt manufacturer)

While we're speaking in hypothetical situations, let's compare to software. My company spends 1M currency units in labor/development/everything else. The actual software itself is irrelevant. It could be a game, or some office application, or some development tool. This software experiences wide usage. Distribution costs, say, 1 unit per transportation/license/disc/everything else. My pricing, as long as it is significantly greater than 1 unit is irrelevant.

Of course it gets pirated and cracked; as a result, a bunch of people get this software for free. Or people make copies and distribute copies of them. Either way, I make money off one copy out of all those people using them.

Does this mean I stop producing software? No, because there will always be people that legitimately purchase this software (such as, individuals, schools, government, other companies). Also, my company has the option to continuously develop this software, making it better than the illegal copies, thereby giving people a reason to buy it.

In the meanwhile, open source software or some cheaper alternative comes up and steals some of my customers. Look, consumer choice.

The fact is, the original product will generally be better than knock-offs (another example: retail World of Warcraft versus WoW private servers).

That said, while my example addresses yours, the puzzle industry is significantly smaller than either industry, and therefore I don't think either example really applies.