Mefferts 7x7 and Holey Cube!!!

[qqwref]

So I take it that you'd rather see monopolies? Let's have more goods and services that are supplied by single firms, right?

It's not as simple as that, unfortunately. In some cases monopolies are clearly bad for the consumer - for instance in the traditional American circumstance where a necessity (phone lines, railroads, steel, etc.) is controlled by one company or an allied group of companies which then proceeds to drive up the price as much as possible because people are "willing" to pay huge prices to get something they need.

But on the other hand sometimes a monopoly is simply the only fair way to go. Panagiotis Verdes is, as of my knowledge, the ONLY person who has designed a working 7x7 mechanism which can stand up to speedcubing. Period. He's the only one who deserves to sell 7x7s. If you have a problem with this, stealing his invention is not the moral or ethical way to go. The right way to do it is to actually offer a competing service - that is, have someone invent a new 7x7 mechanism, and produce that. I've tried - it's HARD to think of a decent mechanism... and I respect Mr. Verdes a lot for having done it.

Also, you fail to justify your conclusion; you instead jump to it. Besides, if you need a high quality cube to set fast times, then, you just need to get faster at cubing, period.

You shouldn't be talking, you're not even sub-15 >_> Seriously, the cube DOES affect your times, it's just that in the long run practice affects your times much more. Take a new storebought and ask Harris or Yu or Erik to get a sub-10 and I bet you they'll have a much harder time than they would with one of their speedcubes. Give any fast Megaminx solver my Megaminx and I bet you they won't be getting any sub-1:30s.

 

[ExoCorsair]

But on the other hand sometimes a monopoly is simply the only fair way to go. Panagiotis Verdes is, as of my knowledge, the ONLY person who has designed a working 7x7 mechanism which can stand up to speedcubing. Period. He's the only one who deserves to sell 7x7s. If you have a problem with this, stealing his invention is not the moral or ethical way to go. The right way to do it is to actually offer a competing service - that is, have someone invent a new 7x7 mechanism, and produce that. I've tried - it's HARD to think of a decent mechanism... and I respect Mr. Verdes a lot for having done it.

We'll just have to see if Mefferts indeed infringed on the patent rights, then?

[You shouldn't be talking, you're not even sub-15 >_> Seriously, the cube DOES affect your times, it's just that in the long run practice affects your times much more. Take a new storebought and ask Harris or Yu or Erik to get a sub-10 and I bet you they'll have a much harder time than they would with one of their speedcubes. Give any fast Megaminx solver my Megaminx and I bet you they won't be getting any sub-1:30s.

My comment was directed at the poster whom I quoted, who isn't sub-25 yet, apparently. At that stage, I believe that the cuber makes a significantly larger difference than the cube. I think I can say this because I could average the same on all my cubes (with their varied colors and color schemes) when I was there. Relating it to big cubes, if it takes a person five minutes to solve a 5x5x5, what difference would an Eastsheen, a Rubik's, or a V5 make? There wouldn't be really be any; the problem is with the technique.

That said, I'm not talking about top speedcubers (they all probably already have their V7's anyway); I'm talking about the average speedcuber. Not that you really care about them, right?

Also we're talking about high quality cubes. A V7 compared to a Mefferts 7x7 would probably be close to the same. I don't believe we'll be seeing something like Rubik's 5x5x5s vs. Mefferts 5x5x5s, if you remember that. Therefore, we wouldn't see extreme cases such as your examples, namely a crap cube/minx versus a speedcube/minx.

Edit: I do appreciate that you actually provide legitimate, justified reasons, though, instead of speaking in obscurities like some other posts here...

 

[Ethan Rosen]

First of all Exo, what exactly do my solve times have to do with a legal and ethical debate? And for the record, I am sub-25.
Anyway, as for how I got to the conclusion that knockoffs will seriously hurt the chances of seeing other v-cubes, its simple. Something like a v-4 would require money to make, and there would need to be some reason to believe that they would make money on it. Knockoff 7x7s steal money from the Verdes, and not only will that hurt their ability to make other cubes, but if they have reason to believe that the market will go for knockoffs coming shortly after the official ones are released, what reason would they have to make it at all?

Also, I never said that I want to see monopolies. I am fine that there is no monopoly on the 2-5 cubes. The difference is that Eastsheen/v-cubes legitimately produced a legal product, rather than stealing what someone else had already done.

 

[Drucifer]

I am sorry to hear about the users who received a damaged v-cube and never received a response back when contacting their support.

I purchased the 3 v-cubes and when I got them I noticed there were stickers on all 3 that were peeling off a bit. I contacted them and they sent out replacement stickers right away. I think they did a fantastic job fulfilling the order and am very happy with their service.

I love the 5x5. The 6x6 wasn't as bad as I was expecting after things I have been hearing online. Also the 7x7 is just great. I don't try to speed solve them so I can't really comment on how well they would be for speed solving but I really enjoy solving them and I'm happy I bought them.

As for Mefferts selling knock offs I think this is really shameful. If anyone here is interested in the 7x7 I suggest you purchase it from the inventor at the v-cubes website and support them for the great product they provide.

 

[qqwref]

That said, I'm not talking about top speedcubers (they all probably already have their V7's anyway); I'm talking about the average speedcuber. Not that you really care about them, right?

Well, if you're not fast at big cubes, I think a V7 is pretty much a luxury, rather than a necessity. You wouldn't be missing out on being one of the best in [insert region], instead the only thing you wouldn't have is being able to play with or solve the puzzle. (Of course, if you just want to solve the puzzle but can't afford one, there are plenty of computer simulators out there to play with, with many different looks and control schemes.)

The thing is, there are a LOT of interesting puzzles out there that are a bit too expensive to be able to play with. Rubik's Domino, Master Pyraminx, Gigaminx, Pentultimate, Dino Cube... and that's just a very short list off the top of my head. Those are all interesting puzzles that are probably fun to play with and solve and practice. If you're not expecting to practice 7x7 a lot and get really good at it, I think the 7x7 really belongs in a list like that - it's just a cool interesting puzzle that you'd solve once in a while and maybe show off to some cuber friends, but that might be a bit out of your price range.

 

[Stefan]

Anyway, as for how I got to the conclusion that knockoffs will seriously hurt the chances of seeing other v-cubes, its simple. Something like a v-4 would require money to make, and there would need to be some reason to believe that they would make money on it.

Other V-cubes? Probably. If you mean produced by Verdes. Didn't someone earlier mention a cloner intending to produce a 9x9x9 soon with their mechanism? Ever since the patent appeared and I saw the pictures, I had wondered whether Verdes would actually be the first to produce the new cubes, especially when Verdes took so long.

Note: As usual I'm not taking sides prematurely, just providing reality checks.

 

[jcuber]

If the mefferts 7x7 really did have a better design than v-7's do, I believe that you should be able to buy it (unless it is something stupid like adjustability).

 

[Ethan Rosen]

Anyway, as for how I got to the conclusion that knockoffs will seriously hurt the chances of seeing other v-cubes, its simple. Something like a v-4 would require money to make, and there would need to be some reason to believe that they would make money on it.

Other V-cubes? Probably. If you mean produced by Verdes. Didn't someone earlier mention a cloner intending to produce a 9x9x9 soon with their mechanism? Ever since the patent appeared and I saw the pictures, I had wondered whether Verdes would actually be the first to produce the new cubes, especially when Verdes took so long.

Note: As usual I'm not taking sides prematurely, just providing reality checks.

O yes sorry I should have noted that I did mean by v-cubes, and I am aware that it is possible for others to make cubes that haven't come out yet based solely on the designs of the other cubes and the patents. I know that who manufactures the cubes isn't important to some people, but I do feel a legal and moral obligation not to support stealing patented designs.

Edit: I'm not trying to say that I'm a moral crusader or anything, I just see that as the right thing to do, and I honestly believe that the right to patent enforcement in a critical part of society, especially in a small niche community.

Also, you may be able to get v-cubes elsewhere if the verdes were unfortunately forced to stop making them by a financial situation, but it may make inventors and builders have hesitations before introducing a new puzzle to mass production.

 

[Unknown.soul]

Didn't someone earlier mention a cloner intending to produce a 9x9x9 soon with their mechanism?

Uwe mentioned that in a newsletter.

 

[fanwuq]

I have a question:

What is the point of getting a patent if it does nothing to prevent competition? Aren't patents intended to be government protected monopolies (that you have to pay and work hard to get and lasts a period of time ~30 years)?

 

[ExoCorsair]

Ethan, for the same reasons that qqwref introduced them.

What is the point of getting a patent if it does nothing to prevent competition? Aren't patents intended to be government protected monopolies (that you have to pay and work hard to get and lasts a period of time ~30 years)?

Competition is not bad.

Patents are supposed to protect your rights for X years so that you exclusively profit from them, such that only you profit from your research and development.

It's pretty much to ensure that you're profiting from your investment in R&D.

Meanwhile, other firms would need to come up with other ideas to compete if they want a piece of the market pie. If it happens, then the consumer benefits from lower prices (ideally) and a choice in what items he/she purchases.

 

[Odin]

I cant wait to but a Mefferts "Holey" cube and a Mefferts 7x7x7.

 

[crazyasianskills]

Kinda off topic, but why was my thread put into Connorcuber's thread? I'm pretty sure I made mine first. I don't really care, just wondering what happened.

 

[Paul Wagner]

ill wait for feedback to buy.

 

[ConnorCuber]

Kinda off topic, but why was my thread put into Connorcuber's thread? I'm pretty sure I made mine first. I don't really care, just wondering what happened.

Actually, i made mine first (not trying to gloat, they were just a couple minutes apart) and they were merged, because they're pretty much the same thread.

 

[DavidCalvo]

Why is Konstantinos Complaining now?

He has done many bad things too, like using all the Rubik's brand created "world" for his own profit, without paying an unique Euro.

Of course, now he's the damaged, and he has to complain. Well deserved.

 

[crazyasianskills]

Kinda off topic, but why was my thread put into Connorcuber's thread? I'm pretty sure I made mine first. I don't really care, just wondering what happened.

Actually, i made mine first (not trying to gloat, they were just a couple minutes apart) and they were merged, because they're pretty much the same thread.

Gotcha that makes sense. I guess I didn't see yours.

 

[byu]

V-Cube has a monopoly, right now at least. But if you look at their website with new items they are thinking about a V2, V3, etc. up to V11. A 7x7x7 from Mefferts doesn't take away the monopoly that V-Cube has, I don't think there are any other mass producers of 6x6x6 cubes, and eventually up to 11. I think the design and concept of how V-Cube makes their cubes is very good, and I would be willing to buy a V3 possibly the day it comes out (if it ever does)

 

[qqwref]

Why is Konstantinos Complaining now?

He has done many bad things too, like using all the Rubik's brand created "world" for his own profit, without paying an unique Euro.

Of course, now he's the damaged, and he has to complain. Well deserved.

...

First: "using all the Rubik's brand created "world" for his own profit"? Check the V-cube website, I challenge you to find even one mention of "Rubik's". Same thing for the advertising. You would have to be an idiot to believe that V-cubes are official Rubik's merchandise. People purchase V-cubes not because they are like Rubik's cubes, but because they are sturdy, complex, and beautiful puzzles. Don't like the cubes? Don't buy one.

Second: "without paying a unique Euro"? I assume you're referring to the technique of making molds and prototype puzzles, and getting patents, for free. Think you could teach me how?

Third: Blatant, explicit support of theft makes you as bad as the thief in my eyes. Perhaps one day when you grow up you will learn about what adults call "morality" and "ethics".

Finally: Using the same logic as you, if all of your money and cubes got stolen, you'd deserve it. After all, you've gained fame and friends, and possibly prize money, using "the Rubik's brand created "world"" for your own profit. So have fun and I hope you get what you deserve.

 

[byu]

Check the V-cube website, I challenge you to find even one mention of "Rubik's".

A brief chronicle from Inventor’s mouth:

“The whole story began in 1981, when for the first time I saw and held in my hands a Rubik’s Cube. I felt great admiration for this astounding invention and I instantly became a fanatic fan of this puzzle..."