[Pyraminx] What happened to top first?

[CapriPhonix]

It seems like these days top first methods are going out of fashion? There used to be a time where most top Pyraminxers would use top first methods, but it seems like v-first (notably l4e) is getting more and more popular by the day. And while Drew Gods still is the best Pyraminxer while using top first, many people are climbing to the top (heh) using l4e. Is there any reason for this? Does this just mean that most people just like intuitively solving puzzles without learning a bunch of algs? Do you still think top first and v-first are on par or will be in the future? I'd love to know your thoughts on this phenomenon.

 

[asacuber]

even i was wondering the same thing. I mstly use L4E with 1flip in a few solves, but i still hv no problem with top first

 

[FastCubeMaster]

People like intuitive solves rather than algorithmic solves

 

[Malkom]

People like intuitive solves rather than algorithmic solves

If that was true roux should be the most popular 3x3 method and big cubes should be more popular than pyra, skweeb and 2x2 and as we all know that's not the case.

 

[shadowslice e]

If that was true roux should be the most popular 3x3 method and big cubes should be more popular than pyra, skweeb and 2x2 and as we all know that's not the case.

No, the reason those aren't is because people enjoy shorter events that take less time.

Also, with pyraminx both methods have had very fast proponents for a long time so it is far more down to personal preference than it is for Roux/CFOP. In addition, the most common beginner methods lead into CFOP more easily than other 3x3 methods (not just Roux).

So for a given event people would prefer to use more intuitive methods if they try a few when they are at the start and have no pre-existing bias.

 

[DGCubes]

The reason I personally use L4E is because it's a really easy transition from LBL. I was already using L4E techniques for a while before I officially switched (like doing sledges instead of inserts to force LL skips), so the switch was really natural for me.

I think it's kind of like CFOP in this regard; there's no complete proof that it's the best method, but it's easy for beginners to switch to. Also like CFOP, since so many people are using it, that makes new Pyraminxers want to use it too.

 

[allanboss131]

You can get insanely fast with l4e with only like 10 algs. With top first to get really fast you need at least 20+ algs. I still think top first may have more potential.

 

[DGCubes]

You can get insanely fast with l4e with only like 10 algs.

Or no algs.

 

[allanboss131]

Or no algs.

Sledge and hedge and insterts! don't you also know the 4 flip alg? Aren't they still algs even if you came up with them intuitively?

 

[DGCubes]

Sledge and hedge and insterts! don't you also know the 4 flip alg? Aren't they still algs even if you came up with them intuitively?

I suppose so, but by that definition, I know 20+ algs for L4E even though they're mostly intuitive.

The only ones I'd actually consider algs that I use are 4-flip and the LBL cases, so 6 total. Personally I don't really consider sledge/hedge/inserts to be algs, since I think they're pretty easy to understand. It's really just semantics, but I think it's fun to say my average solve uses no algs, lol.

 

[Isaac Lai]

I don't think top first can be considered an algorithmic method. The only true 'algs' are for the last 3 edges. You could argue that 1-flip, WO, etc. have algs, but in practice I think a lot of the elite top-first solvers don't actually use these in entirety. Most of their solves tend to be fairly intuitive and consist of a lot of "winging it" (I could be wrong here, since most of this is based on Drew and maybe Odder's solves). As a top-first solver who is also not a very accomplished pyraminx solver, I do think it's harder to get good at and requires more thinking, especially during inspection. I'm guessing this is why it's less popular with the newer cubers these days.

 

[Ordway Persyn]

I'm not very good at pyraminx, but I use keyhole (the most basic top first) because I like the turning style it has more.
I know someone who is sub-4 at pyraminx and uses top first as well.

 

[CornerCutter]

I would say it is easier to get fast at Pyraminx with Intuitive L4E then Topfirst methods.

 

[Micah Walker]

I think the goal of pyraminx is to get to a point where you're doing near optimal solves, and I believe that you can for sure get to that point with either of the two methods. L4E also has a shorter learning curve, and I think that's what makes it more popular these days.

 

[Anthony Dial]

People like intuitive solves rather than algorithmic solves

But sometimes it's slower if you're inspection isnt amazing

 

[abunickabhi]

But sometimes it's slower if you're inspection isnt amazing

Hi please do not bump old posts.

Top first was cool, but as learning resources and hardware got better, L4E proved to be a much superior method.

 

[DuckubingCuber347]

Hi please do not bump old posts.

Top first was cool, but as learning resources and hardware got better, L4E proved to be a much superior method.

yo abunickabhi you've been told numerous times not to bump threads yet you do it all the time.. The post you're replying to is on topic to the thread and is helpful even if it may not be helpful to the person he's replying to. You on the other hand, instead of quietly reporting and maybe PMing him you reply and keep this thread alive. You then add something to your post which brings this thread into further relevance which essentially bumps it even more.

The forum rules not only ban bumping threads without a purpose, which you do a lot, and maybe Anthony did, but it also discourages calling people out, instead encouraging to PM them and talk to them. It's very childish to whine to everyone who bumps a thread and I, and a few others are getting tired of your hypocrisy.

You might think that I am being hypocritical by calling you out, but I think exceptions should be made when a user, you in this case, continuously does this kind of thing.

To sum it up, if you have a problem, PM the member, report him, but don't respond to the thread and keep it running when you seem to think that it should stay dead. But if the member repeatedly breaks rules or shows inappropriate behavior it would be adequate to respond publicly to said member giving him constructive criticism and reminding him in a potted, yet descriptive format on what he should be doing.

Make sure to read the forum rules, which I'll link down below, if you need a reminder on proper conduct. While it's acceptable to slip up sometimes, who doesn't?, I think you've done this enough times where you need a reminder and reprimand.

Forum Rules

Rules for the community forum.

www.speedsolving.com

Quack!

 

[Klaudiusz Szyprocinski]

Top first was cool, but as learning resources and hardware got better, L4E proved to be a much superior method.

I am pretty sure Tymon is method neutral and he decides what method to choose based on a scramble. So what you said is not true, in certain situations top first is superior.