Multi Blindfolded at Paris World Championship

[Rahul Tirkey]

No-one can be lucky in MBLD, how can someone be lucky in MBLD?? you need to have good memory skills & Shivam deserve it

 

[Mike Hughey]

He didn't plan for something that did happen, he HOPED for something that did happen. He got very, very lucky. That's NOT a good strategy.

I've won quite a few US national championships in the various BLD events this way. From personal experience I can vouch for the fact that it can be an excellent strategy.

And I personally believe that knowing your limits is a very important part of multiBLD. I would never want to see the rules changed to simply count the number of solved cubes - it would degrade the event.

Maskow is awesome. His result this year was still quite amazing. But congrats to Shivam who truly earned and deserved the title.

 

[Douf]

Getting lucky is not a crime.

I didn't say it was. I said it's not a good winning strategy if you rely ONLY on luck for your success. Or better, relying on other people NOT to have luck. I just find it a ridiculous concept that people would credit him with winning because his plan worked perfectly. He hoped for a crash and it happened. Good for him, yes he got lucky no argument. But others are saying he had a excellent strategy, (which was hoping all his opponents wipe out). I don't think that is a good strategy, that's all. Imagine if he finished last him saying "I got really unlucky today - the crash wiping out all my competitors didn't happen. My plan was for them to all wipe out." Doesn't that sound silly?

 

[shadowslice e]

I didn't say it was. I said it's not a good winning strategy if you rely ONLY on getting lucky to do it.

Sure but clearly Shivam didn't so the analogy or comparison does not hold up particularly well.

 

[Douf]

Y

Sure but clearly Shivam didn't so the analogy or comparison does not hold up particularly well.

You're right I'm kind of trailing off-topic big time. I'm not thinking of Shivam at all, I'm just talking about the Australian speedskater. I think all these MLB guys are amazing and I'm nobody to comment on any strategies or methods they apply.

 

[Christopher Cabrera]

He didn't plan for something that did happen, he HOPED for something that did happen. He got very, very lucky. That's NOT a good strategy.

I don't think he planned to get 37/40 and win. He probably planned to get 40/40 and ladder up at least one spot. He probably did not expect Maskow to mess up (although given the prior attempts this could be considered a valid prediction). He tried to do the most he could do with out compromising the accuracy of his attempt. Long story short he tried his best and he happened to win. Congrats to Shivam!

 

[kamilprzyb]

Okay, looks like I have to say something about it

Shivam deffinietly won this fight fairly and he deserved it, however we didn't fight with each other, we didn't even fight with ourselves, we fought with organisation and conditions in Paris.
I'm not saying that organisers didn't care about us, beacuse they did but seems like nobody understands what we need to achieve good results. You can't put 23 people into a small room and place them next to each other, then walk around them, film them and make photos during memo, give them distracting judges and then expect a world record.
Again, we all had the same conditions and Shivam did the best in this environment, but it really shouldn't be done this way. After hard training that consumed enormous amount of time, I went to Paris and had to solve in worst conditions I've ever seen.
To be honest, I don't know if I want to do this anymore

 

[Douf]

I don't think he planned to get 37/40 and win. He probably planned to get 40/40 and ladder up at least one spot. He probably did not expect Maskow to mess up (although given the prior attempts this could be considered a valid prediction). He tried to do the most he could do with out compromising the accuracy of his attempt. Long story short he tried his best and he happened to win. Congrats to Shivam!

Again sorry I was rambling off-topic and I wasn't referring to Shivam at all. I was specifically talking about an Australian speedskater for some reason. Sorry to stray! Yes congrats to Shivam, he absolutely deserved the title!

 

[Sajwo]

I'm not saying that organisers didn't care about us, beacuse they did but seems like nobody understands what we need to achieve good results. You can't put 23 people into a small room and place them next to each other, then walk around them, film them and make photos during memo, give them distracting judges and then expect a world record.
Again, we all had the same conditions and Shivam did the best in this environment, but it really shouldn't be done this way. After hard training that consumed enormous amount of time, I went to Paris and had to solve in worst conditions I've ever seen.
To be honest, I don't know if I want to do this anymore

You are not familiar yet with competitions, as it was your 5th time attending one. Don't blame organisers for not getting WR, blame yourself. And adapt.

Walking, taking photos or filming is a norm, especially for competition like this. MBLDers doesn't have special rights, so I don't really understand your allegations.. Maybe train in distracting conditions, like Ishaan. It's clearly working for him

 

[Christopher Cabrera]

You are not familiar yet with competitions, as it was your 5th time attending one. Don't blame organisers for not getting WR, blame yourself. And adapt.

Walking, taking photos or filming is a norm, especially for competition like this. MBLDers doesn't have special rights, so I don't really understand your allegations.. Maybe train in distracting conditions, like Ishaan. It's clearly working for him

You are not familiar with competing in multi, as you have never competed in multi. While MBLDers don't have special rights to a different environment then normal competitors, it is usually common courtesy for the organizers to try and provide. This is why multi, big bld, and FMC are usually held in separate rooms. Wondering people and photography (especially with flash) can be incredibly distracting in these rooms since spectators are usually allowed to stand much closer than in the normal stage. I think these complaints are valid even if there is no specific regulation regarding them.

 

[newtonbase]

Can we scrap this speedskater analogy. That guy wasn't at the back of the field through a tactical decision. He was there because he was the slowest person in the race by far and had only qualified for the final because the same thing had happened in his previous race.
Shivam didn't win by default or through luck. He won because he is really good at MBLD.

 

[I_<3_SCS]

you're right, sorry, it was that winning strategy. How he knew everyone was going to wipeout and competed accordingly is astounding!

Yes, it was a good strategy.

He planned for something that DID happen. That's good strategy.

Agreed.

Jeez. Okay. Some perspective.
First of, the person who solved more cubes blindfolded deserves it more is wrong for the simple reason that MBLD rewards accuracy as well. Shivam made a strategic decision to try to improve his accuracy by attempting 40 (he did 42 in his first attempt) and it paid off. Choosing the number of cubes you're going to do isn't as simple as it looks, because most top MBLDers have a max limit of cubes they can sub hour which they usually stay under. How far under that limit they choose to stay is the decision they have to make. I can sub hour 30 cubes, best case. But I'll lose out on some reviews and am likely to compromise my accuracy. So should I do 30? 27? 25? 23? You have to draw the line between getting high accuracy and a large number of points (14/17 beats 10/10, but 13/17 doesn't). What's the point of attempting 50 cubes if you can't solve more than 35 successfully?
My current official best is 17/17. My memo was done in 20 minutes, I spent the next 25 minutes revising specifically so I could get a 17/17. I could've done 25, but then I wouldn't have had as much revision time. That's a strategic choice you have to make.
Also, it's not like you aren't rewarded for doing more cubes. Had Shivam been 15 seconds slower, Maskow would've gotten away with getting double the DNFs that Shivam did.

Strategic.

The regulations used to reflect this back in the olden days of the WCA.

Yup.

He didn't plan for something that did happen, he HOPED for something that did happen. He got very, very lucky. That's NOT a good strategy.

But that doesn't mean he doesn't "deserve" the result.

Getting lucky is not a crime.

-Mitchell Lane

Agreed.

No-one can be lucky in MBLD, how can someone be lucky in MBLD?? you need to have good memory skills & Shivam deserve it

MBLD is definitely not lucky, but that isn't saying "lucky" events are less impressive or competitors in "lucky" events are less deserving or skillful.

I've won quite a few US national championships in the various BLD events this way. From personal experience I can vouch for the fact that it can be an excellent strategy.

And I personally believe that knowing your limits is a very important part of multiBLD. I would never want to see the rules changed to simply count the number of solved cubes - it would degrade the event.

Maskow is awesome. His result this year was still quite amazing. But congrats to Shivam who truly earned and deserved the title.

Strategy.

I didn't say it was. I said it's not a good winning strategy if you rely ONLY on luck for your success. Or better, relying on other people NOT to have luck. I just find it a ridiculous concept that people would credit him with winning because his plan worked perfectly. He hoped for a crash and it happened. Good for him, yes he got lucky no argument. But others are saying he had a excellent strategy, (which was hoping all his opponents wipe out). I don't think that is a good strategy, that's all. Imagine if he finished last him saying "I got really unlucky today - the crash wiping out all my competitors didn't happen. My plan was for them to all wipe out." Doesn't that sound silly?

Okay, so I think we are a little off-topic. My argument was that even though he was lucky, he still deserved that win because he was able to strategize.

Sure but clearly Shivam didn't so the analogy or comparison does not hold up particularly well.

Y

You're right I'm kind of trailing off-topic big time. I'm not thinking of Shivam at all, I'm just talking about the Australian speedskater. I think all these MLB guys are amazing and I'm nobody to comment on any strategies or methods they apply.

Maybe.

I don't think he planned to get 37/40 and win. He probably planned to get 40/40 and ladder up at least one spot. He probably did not expect Maskow to mess up (although given the prior attempts this could be considered a valid prediction). He tried to do the most he could do with out compromising the accuracy of his attempt. Long story short he tried his best and he happened to win. Congrats to Shivam!

Yes indeed.

Can we scrap this speedskater analogy. That guy wasn't at the back of the field through a tactical decision. He was there because he was the slowest person in the race by far and had only qualified for the final because the same thing had happened in his previous race.
Shivam didn't win by default or through luck. He won because he is really good at MBLD.

Fine.

 

[porkynator]

Shivam did better and deserved the World Champion title, period.
Is he better than Maskow? A single competition isn't enough to tell.
Was luck involved in his win? I don't think so. In multiblind luck may be involved if accidents like pops or cubes slipping from your hands happen.
Probably Maskow has tried too many cubes. He can get good results at home with 46 cubes, but he hasn't competed much lately, so he couldn't test his skills in competition. Imo he was a bit overconfident. On the other hand, Shivam has tried 42 cubes in competition many times, often achieving good results (37-39 solved iirc). He definitely deserved to win. This doesn't mean Maskow or Kamil or Yuchuang wouldn't have deserved it, had they done a little better.

Okay, looks like I have to say something about it

Shivam deffinietly won this fight fairly and he deserved it, however we didn't fight with each other, we didn't even fight with ourselves, we fought with organisation and conditions in Paris.
I'm not saying that organisers didn't care about us, beacuse they did but seems like nobody understands what we need to achieve good results. You can't put 23 people into a small room and place them next to each other, then walk around them, film them and make photos during memo, give them distracting judges and then expect a world record.
Again, we all had the same conditions and Shivam did the best in this environment, but it really shouldn't be done this way. After hard training that consumed enormous amount of time, I went to Paris and had to solve in worst conditions I've ever seen.
To be honest, I don't know if I want to do this anymore

Do you think the multiblind conditions were worse than the FMC or 4/5BLD conditions? I am asking because I haven't competed in multi.

 

[AlphaSheep]

-Mitchell Lane

No. Erik Akkersdijk, 2008.

 

[Goosly]

since spectators are usually allowed to stand much closer than in the normal stage.

No. Spectators must always stay at least 1.5 meters away when someone is competing (7b).

After hard training that consumed enormous amount of time, I went to Paris and had to solve in worst conditions I've ever seen.

I disagree. I've competed in mbld a lot at several competitions and the environment at Worlds was excellent.

 

[Ollie]

Shivam did better and deserved the World Champion title, period.
Is he better than Maskow? A single competition isn't enough to tell.
Was luck involved in his win? I don't think so. In multiblind luck may be involved if accidents like pops or cubes slipping from your hands happen.
Probably Maskow has tried too many cubes. He can get good results at home with 46 cubes, but he hasn't competed much lately, so he couldn't test his skills in competition. Imo he was a bit overconfident. On the other hand, Shivam has tried 42 cubes in competition many times, often achieving good results (37-39 solved iirc). He definitely deserved to win. This doesn't mean Maskow or Kamil or Yuchuang wouldn't have deserved it, had they done a little better.

Do you think the multiblind conditions were worse than the FMC or 4/5BLD conditions? I am asking because I haven't competed in multi.

My thoughts exactly.

As for multi, I thought the conditions (and also for all the side bld events) were absolutely fine. Good lighting, no distractions, plenty of room on my table (can't say the same for everyone!) In my concentration I didn't even notice the judges or film crews.

The only complaint I had was the wait to start the first attempt, but I heard that the staff improved on that for the next attempts.