Sec. 9m (maximum number of rounds) should be changed

[JustinTimeCuber]

I think that with competitions seeing nearly a thousand people, we're getting to the point where 5 rounds isn't crazy. I think the tipping point is when a semifinal has 100 people, which we could see at a major competition in the next few years. Having only one subsequent round after a round with 100 people is starting to get silly, so I propose this modification.

9m) Events must have at most four five rounds.

• 9m1) Rounds with 999 or fewer competitors must have at most three subsequent rounds.
• 9m12) Rounds with 99 or fewer competitors must have at most two subsequent rounds.
  
• 9m23) Rounds with 15 or fewer competitors must have at most one subsequent round.
• 9m34) Rounds with 7 or fewer competitors must not have subsequent rounds.

 

[AlphaSheep]

On one hand I kind of agree. I'd even say it makes sense for comps with 600+ competitors.

On the other hand, this kind of caters only to the elite. If you have time in the schedule for a 5th round then you also could instead use the time available to put a few more people through in earlier rounds, which would benefit more people. Imagine if you took the maximum number of people through to each round. 1000 people in round 1, 750 in round 2, 550 in round 3, and 400 in the final?

 

[tx789]

Final should remain small. I think 5 rounds makes seem to some degree for worlds this year. But it is a lot of rounds.

 

[Sajwo]

I like the idea. I think WCA should consider changing the rules for the next Worlds (2019). It shouldn't be a big problem by then

 

[Ronxu]

What's the point in adding another round of 3x3 when a comp that lasts for 4 days still doesn't have enough time for more than 2 rounds of big cubes, megaminx and clock?

 

[JustinTimeCuber]

What's the point in adding another round of 3x3 when a comp that lasts for 4 days still doesn't have enough time for more than 2 rounds of big cubes, megaminx and clock?

Most people actually care more about 3x3 than clock. Someone who put as much into clock as a lot of people put into 3x3 would have no trouble making finals.

Also, this thread isn't about any specific competition. It's just about getting the WCA to allow 5 round events.

 

[Calode]

4 actually feels like enough. Time spent doing a 5th round could easily be replaced with letting more people in for 2nd and semis. The motto of the WCA is more people, not more rounds. 4 rounds seems good for an 1000 person comp. A comp with a 1000 people is already going to have most of all the other events and it'd make sense also spending time doing extra rounds for those.

No reason to go beyond 5 almost ever.

 

[JustinTimeCuber]

My biggest problem with making competitions with, say, 1500 people only have 4 rounds is that you're eliminating people so fast that you need to be sub-12 to even make the second round. That discourages some people because they know it will take them several years to get to that speed, and by then the goalposts will have moved.

 

[Malkom]

My biggest problem with making competitions with, say, 1500 people only have 4 rounds is that you're eliminating people so fast that you need to be sub-12 to even make the second round. That discourages some people because they know it will take them several years to get to that speed, and by then the goalposts will have moved.

"Years for sub 12" lol

 

[Rcuber123]

"Years for sub 12" lol

Reads this, start doubting my life...

 

[JustinTimeCuber]

"Years for sub 12" lol

come back in a few months with a sub-12 global average and then we'll talk k?

I mean, someone who isn't sub-12 shouldn't be implying that sub-12 is easy and can be done in like 18 months.

 

[Malkom]

come back in a few months with a sub-12 global average and then we'll talk k?

I mean, someone who isn't sub-12 shouldn't be implying that sub-12 is easy and can be done in like 18 months.

I'll come back in a week or two then.
Just FYI I haven't really practiced 3x3 in the past months, I think I was almost sub12 for a week or something and then got tired of it and went back to mega.

 

[JustinTimeCuber]

I'll come back in a week or two then.
Just FYI I haven't really practiced 3x3 in the past months, I think I was almost sub12 for a week or something and then got tired of it and went back to mega.

I guess we'll see. I'd say though that most cubers take at least 2-3 years to get to 12 seconds.

At least at the competitions I go to.

 

[bobthegiraffemonkey]

4 rounds is plenty for any event, any more would seem to be unfairly taking up schedule time from other events. Yeah, you need to be really good to progress far at a big comp, so what? If you go to the World Championships and compete in an event like 3x3 that is insanely popular with loads of fast people, you need to be world class to progress far, and I don't see that as a problem.

 

[Kit Clement]

Having more than 2 rounds in reality doesn't really give you a better idea of finding the winner/podium of that event, which is the main purpose of holding these competitions. Of course, a second round allows you to take the best from the first round and give them all the same scrambles to determine the podium, so this round has clear utility for our goal. Having just two rounds may leave out some people who deserved to be in a final round, maybe because they got unlucky with scrambles, so 3 rounds may help competitors on the fringe of qualifying for a small final round, but even then, there are typically multiple groups with multiple scramble sets that can still have this problem. Thus, this is just barely better than 2 rounds for that purpose. A fourth round is even more insignificant in helping determine this, but may have a tangible, yet small effect for competitions like Worlds.

In reality, multiple rounds just allows for the best competitors to have more chances at records, either personal, regional or world. 5 rounds is excessive and unnecessary, and you could argue that even 4 rounds is excessive.

 

[JustinTimeCuber]

Having more than 2 rounds in reality doesn't really give you a better idea of finding the winner/podium of that event, which is the main purpose of holding these competitions. Of course, a second round allows you to take the best from the first round and give them all the same scrambles to determine the podium, so this round has clear utility for our goal. Having just two rounds may leave out some people who deserved to be in a final round, maybe because they got unlucky with scrambles, so 3 rounds may help competitors on the fringe of qualifying for a small final round, but even then, there are typically multiple groups with multiple scramble sets that can still have this problem. Thus, this is just barely better than 2 rounds for that purpose. A fourth round is even more insignificant in helping determine this, but may have a tangible, yet small effect for competitions like Worlds.

In reality, multiple rounds just allows for the best competitors to have more chances at records, either personal, regional or world. 5 rounds is excessive and unnecessary, and you could argue that even 4 rounds is excessive.

This is definitely an interesting perspective.

 

[Competition Cuber]

I very strongly agree that a 5th round should be added to bigger comps. Worlds this year is going to be 1100 people, and only four rounds. Nationals is going to be 800. And there are also going to be other huge comps this year (like Euros and Asian Championships), so overall, I think that a 5th round would be very helpful, and maybe for comps with over 1100 people, maybe even a 6th (but that seems a little excessive). I also think that a 5th would help expand the WCA a little bit, because more people can advance, so more people will want to compete just so they can advance beyond round 1. But overall in my opinion, I think that a 5th round would greatly benefit competitions around the world.

 

[One Wheel]

This is definitely an interesting perspective.

Actually it's probably entirely correct. More rounds might be nice for people who are fast, but for someone like me who realistically has little or no chance of ever even getting to significantly sub-20 on 3x3 (after 2 years cubing I'm still over 30, and just timed a T-perm Ao5 of 2.49) I would rather see a policy that discourages extra rounds and instead encourages more events.

 

[JustinTimeCuber]

Actually it's probably entirely correct. More rounds might be nice for people who are fast, but for someone like me who realistically has little or no chance of ever even getting to significantly sub-20 on 3x3 (after 2 years cubing I'm still over 30, and just timed a T-perm Ao5 of 2.49) I would rather see a policy that discourages extra rounds and instead encourages more events.

I think it should be organizers making that decision though. In a few years, comps will probably be more widespread, so at that point, people will have a choice to go to a comp with lots of 3x3 rounds or with more events.

Even though 2x2 is my 2nd main event, I don't just not go to comps that don't have it (although someone whose name starts with Aussi and ends with reene can't say the same)

 

[One Wheel]

I think it should be organizers making that decision though. In a few years, comps will probably be more widespread, so at that point, people will have a choice to go to a comp with lots of 3x3 rounds or with more events.

Even though 2x2 is my 2nd main event, I don't just not go to comps that don't have it (although someone whose name starts with Aussi and ends with reene can't say the same)

Maybe in a few years comps will be more widespread, but they're not now, and I doubt that they will ever be common enough that people like me, who live in rural areas, will have those choices.

As far as skipping comps: priorities, man! 6x6 is the best event, after all. Life is short, why bother with silly stuff?

How would you feel about a rule limiting number of rounds on the basis of number of events offered? For example:
No more than 2 rounds of any one event may be offered at any competition unless at least one round of every other WCA event is offered at the same competition. Exception: competitions with 2 or fewer official events offered may offer additional rounds subject to the limitations on number of competitors.