I want to discuss the Cubing Community and my experience

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potatoman

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I apologize if this is a bit long.

So a goodwhile back, I started a thread that was eventually closed down. It was titled "Why are some of Feliks Zemdeg's fans so rude?" Basically, I talked about how I felt many Feliks Zemdegs fans often berrate other speedcubers for being "not as good" as he is, and this is literally everywhere. Go on Lucas Etter's videos, go on Mats Valk's videos, go on all these top cuber's videos, and you'll find these comments saying, even if in an offhanded or sarcastic manner, "not as good as feliks" or "feliks will beat this eventually". And I get it; it's understandable since Feliks is really fast and has a pretty large fanbase. But anyway, I'm not here to discuss that. If you wanna read about it, then check this thread out. https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...-feliks-zemdegs-fans-rude.61655/#post-1181569

The reaction I got for the post was...negative. I didn't want to start any drama, but people just seemed to take my words negatively. Many didn't even seem to read my entire post, and just claimed I was straight up ****-talking Feliks, which I CLEARLY wasn't. anyway, the point is; the thread got closed down, and I gave up and figured I may as well just not start anymore drama.

Now some of you may have seen this; Chris Olson recently uploaded a new video where he briefly discusses putting other people down in the YouTube comments section (around 5 min. mark):

Let me just quote this from his video: "There's no winning. No matter what kind of content you make, you make the best video, no flaws, 100% factually correct, some person's just gonna come around and be like 'you suck'...."

And this suddenly reminded me of the point that I was trying to get at. However, the difference was that the reaction to what he said was very positive and supportive of his point. And yeah, I get it. He's a big YouTube cuber. He's fast. He's got lots of fans and people, so naturally he'll get more support. However, it might show something about our community as a whole? That we just don't seem to care or listen to the smaller less significant members as much, or just have less patience with them? That if they're not big and well known or extremely fast, we believe what they say is largely invalid? I'm not really sure. Let me know what you guys think.

Edit: Please please please don't start any drama over this; that's not my intention. I just want a meaningful discussion.
 
I concur. People don't need to criticize people so much unless they have something constructive to say!

However,
Public figures like Chris Olson, Chris Tran (@4Chan), Lucas, Felix, @DGCubes, Mats, Kevin, and many other cubing celebrities know that they're going to get trash talkers in the comments section from time to time. I want all the YouCubers out there to know that I, like many cubers, really appreciate what they do. Thank you, and don't sweat the small stuff. ;)
 
The problem is not the cubing community. The problem is the sort of person who types "You suck", or "So-and-so is better" as comments on YouTube, whether it's cubing or gaming or singing or a magic trick or whatever. The worst part is that it's not even unique to YouTube. Those people have been around forever. It's the same kid who grows into the adult who would call people stupid because the sports team they were supporting only came second in the tournament. When you buy a new car, they will remind you that another car is better. They are insecure and desperately need you to notice that they know who the best is. They hope that by doing so, you'll think they have some sort of association with the best.

The truth is, those people making those comments are just annoying. You'll encounter them in every aspect of your life. All you can do is ignore them.
 
AlphaSheep said:
The problem is not the cubing community. The problem is the sort of person who types "You suck", or "So-and-so is better" as comments on YouTube, whether it's cubing or gaming or singing or a magic trick or whatever. The worst part is that it's not even unique to YouTube. Those people have been around forever. It's the same kid who grows into the adult who would call people stupid because the sports team they were supporting only came second in the tournament. When you buy a new car, they will remind you that another car is better. They are insecure and desperately need you to notice that they know who the best is. They hope that by doing so, you'll think they have some sort of association with the best.

The truth is, those people making those comments are just annoying. You'll encounter them in every aspect of your life. All you can do is ignore them.
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You're right; we can't really do anything but ignore them. What I'm sorta wondering though, is why people seem to take it so negatively when I, a rather insignificant member to the cubing community, brought this up, yet when people such as Chris bring it up, it's suddenly like this revolutionary life changing idea that will better the community. Does that aspect say something about our community? Maybe we're a bit quick to judge or something.
 
AlphaSheep said:
Nah, it says nothing about our community. In fact, I find the cubing community unusually supportive. People in general are a bit quick to judge.
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I suppose that's fair. It's just stuff like this kind of bothers me sometimes, especially when I see the same people go back on their words because someone they deemed as more "legitimate" said something.
 
People also were more likely to misinterpret your post because it called out a specific cuber. Chris' video talked about this negativity in comment sections in general and gave many different examples of it, rather than just focusing on Feliks-based trash talk.
 
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I think 90% of the issues people have are just people joking around, stop taking cubing so seriously, no one liked your Feliks thread because the people weren't being rude, they were making a joke. @Artic is right, toughen up. Boohoo someone said you suck, suck it up and stop fishing for compliments and attention. Welcome to the internet.
 
Forcefulness said:
I think 90% of the issues people have are just people joking around, stop taking cubing so seriously, no one liked your Feliks thread because the people weren't being rude, they were making a joke. @Artic is right, toughen up. Boohoo someone said you suck, suck it up and stop fishing for compliments and attention. Welcome to the internet.
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Not everyone can or will "suck it up," and besides, there's a lot of younger cubers out there. Bettering a community is always a good intention, but especially if you're bettering a community that has kids/teens in it. They might not know to "suck it up," but might rather take these jokes to heart because they're more naive.
You're not wrong that those that can suck it up, should (if that makes sense), but that's definitely not a permanent solution for everyone.
 
But we aren't going to fix trolling by discussing it here.

Sadly, kids today inhabit an incredibly vitriolic and unpleasant online world. Those who are unable to suck it up should perhaps steer clear of online forums - I often feel inclined to respond to comments on YouTube, then think better of it.

Meh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I saw the video and my take on it is that all content creators should expect hate, because obviously there is no way to please everybody and there is no public figure who receives 100% praise. Plus, negative/controversial comments get more responses and then go to the top, and any person is more likely to comment on a video if they disagree than if they agree.

I'm not saying inevitability makes it acceptable, or that it shouldn't be talked about. But pointing at a specific community or audience just isn't right, since this happens everywhere, especially sports (and cubing is a sport in many ways) and especially the youtube comment section.
 
Forcefulness said:
I think 90% of the issues people have are just people joking around, stop taking cubing so seriously, no one liked your Feliks thread because the people weren't being rude, they were making a joke. @Artic is right, toughen up. Boohoo someone said you suck, suck it up and stop fishing for compliments and attention. Welcome to the internet.
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That's the thing. You say it's a joke. You call it sarcasm. You call it trolling. Does that make it okay? Does it make it a good thing? I can "joke" about rape and suicide, and that does not make it acceptable. You can't have this underlying assumption that just because someone is "joking" they shouldn't be taken seriously, because that's just not how it works. You tell me not to take cubing seriously, but why shouldn't I? It's my passion, it's a huge part of my life right now. I want to take cubing seriously, and as such, I want the best for my community, and I really don't think anyone is obligated to tell others how "seriously" they should take their passions. You're doing the same thing people did on my previous thread. I don't intend for any drama, but you seem to be purposely trying to stir some up. All I'm trying to do is raise some discussion, and it would be at least appreciative if you didn't reject my points and call me names. I don't see how this is apparently a "bad" thing, nor do I see how it's attention seeking, but sure I guess, if you don't have anything else to say, it's better than nothing.

anyway, that's besides the point. My point for this thread is to point out the obvious bias towards that everyone has towards someone like Chris. And yeah, it makes sense and stuff, but I just can't believe how different the reactions are towards two people who are more or less saying the same thing, except one is far more popular and well known. THAT'S the issues I'm talking about, not "getting rid of internet trolls" because clearly that'll never happen.

obelisk477 said:
Wasn't the title of your thread originally "Why Feliks is overrated" or something to that effect?
Click to expand...

Original thread title was "The Zemdegs" which I realized was way too vague so it was changed. I did mention Feliks was "overrated" but it's probably just bad wording of mine; a lot of people seem to have taken it the wrong way and stopped reading right then and there, because the entire thread is filled with people refuting how Feliks actually isn't overrated, when that wasn't what I talked about at all. Not blaming them, it's probably just bad wording on my part.
 
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potatoman said:
(...) My point for this thread is to point out the obvious bias towards that everyone has towards someone like Chris. And yeah, it makes sense and stuff, but I just can't believe how different the reactions are towards two people who are more or less saying the same thing, except one is far more popular and well known. (...)
(...) but it's probably just bad wording of mine (...)
Click to expand...

When 2 persons are more or less saying the same thing, but one uses bad wording, of course the other one will get more positive reaction.
 
I think the main problem is probably that newbies see a joke between friend/people who have interacted for a long time and decide to get in on the joke without having been even part of it originally so the original jokiness between friends is lost. Things like that happen all the time when people new to a group want to be accepted and like evryone else.
potatoman said:
Original thread title was "The Zemdegs" which I realized was way too vague so it was changed. I did mention Feliks was "overrated" but it's probably just bad wording of mine; a lot of people seem to have taken it the wrong way and stopped reading right then and there, because the entire thread is filled with people refuting how Feliks actually isn't overrated, when that wasn't what I talked about at all. Not blaming them, it's probably just bad wording on my part.
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Personally, I would go for a vague title and let people read what I have to say rather than a perhaps more specific and misleading one.

Also, it's probably a good idea not to specifically call out one person if that person is generally well liked and has never don't a lot of the things you talk about (except maybe with close friends).
 
potatoman said:
Does that make it okay? Does it make it a good thing? I can "joke" about rape and suicide, and that does not make it acceptable.
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The reason you think this is wrong is because you see it as harassment. Anyone should be free to joke about anything, even offensive things, but that doesn't make harassing and bullying people okay. People like Mats Valk and Mitch Lane have no problem swearing in response to a WR because they're in a private environment where they shouldn't have to censor themselves, and I see online jokes the same way.
 
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